Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires What does "accurate" mean these days?

So, I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been shooting for a while has shot their share of good and not so good .22's
If you have been around the block a few times, would you say that, in general, that garden variety 22's made since the 90's are better shooters than older guns, say made from the 50's through 70's?

I ask because I don't really see a difference but I'm only a sample size of 1.


Thanks in advance

In my experience I would have to say no. But you may need to rephrase your question to specify which rifles you are referring to.

My early 50's- 70's Rem 40X, Win 52B, 52C are all very accurate- in my hands and with relatively cheap ammo like Win Power Points they will easily print .2" at 50 yards all day long. In better hands and with high end ammo they would be much better.

However, I also own a number of early Winchester and Remington rimfires and all of them are earlier rifles- Win 69a (2), Win 75 Sporter, Remington 581, 541S and a few others and all of them are more than acceptable accurate. None of them will shoot over 1/2" at 50 yards if I do my part and the wind doesn't become a problem. I've owned and shot rifles belonging to others- Ruger 10-22, 77-22, Several models of Wins, and a few others and most of them were acceptably accurate and a couple worked over 10-22's were pretty impressive, but none of them would hold a candle to the every day accuracy of the older rifles.

Of course, I'm not lumping in the Anschutz and other dedicated target rifles in those opinions as those rifles with a decent shooter would kick my butt all day long no matter what I was shooting and would easily match the accuracy of most of my rifles. Might be close on the 40X and 52's though...

Personally, I just like how the older rifles were built and the feel of them. Seems more of the early rimfires were built to replicate the feel of a centerfire rifle so they just handle more naturally to me.

In fact, leaving for a shooting session in just a few minutes to check out a few rifles, sight in a couple new ones (to me), and enjoy the rare nice weather we are having right now.

Bob

Accuracy is related to the proximity of ones shots to the desired point of impact. Same as in the old days. If one wants to spend the bucks, today's technology can deliver a more accurate unit than was possible 50 years back. Tight chambers reamed to the specs of some of the high end ammo, a barrel tuner, and a high power adjustable AO scope can deliver amazing accuracy.

It depends on the gun.

My own standards are thus-

Any light weight sub $1k sporter that shoots almost anything inside 1" at 50 yards for 5 shots day in and day out AND can shoot 1/2" or less consistently with some loads is "accurate"in my book. Some high end sporters can't do that. Some $200 rifles can.

For any heavy ,expensive target grade rimfire, cut those group sizes by half.

If you are going to compete on a national or intenational level and shoot the best ammo in the world-cut those grouo sizes by half again.

One note above- these figures are for calm conditions, with a good benchrest, shooting individually boxed standard velocity ammo. While lots of hunting or bulk packed loads will do it, IMHO, its not fair to any rifle to feed it crap ammo and expect consistent accuracy from it.

Having said that my latest (amd most likely last) CZ 452 American 22lr thinks CCI Mini Mag HPs are standard velocity stuff. It keeps wanting to shoot them under 1/2" at 50 yards.. I am very pleased with that sporter:)

Old vs new. Both sporter weight rifles. Scopes were very different. This is what I expect out of my sporter weight rifles with decent ammo.
The bullseye black is 1 1/8".
I shot these 2 rifles to show that I can shoot a 6X scope as well as I can a higher magnification scope, in this case a 8-24X40.

With 22's it is always the rifle, old, new I have had both. Both will get the job done. Fit and finish is where I see the difference. The bluing, wood, or synthetic stock and the trigger. 1/2" for 10 at 50 yards is my benchmark for an "accurate" rifle. An older Remington 541s would do it, a 100+ year old BSA Martini Model 12 would do it. A new CZ 452 would also do it. A Marlin Model 60 got close, A newer Savage got close. As has been said, only accurate rifles are interesting.

I have been shoot 22's for better than 50 years 10's of thousand rounds thru everything from single shot break open to 40X Sporters and this is my findings:

50 yds

99% of them will shoot 1/2"
50% will shoot 3/8"
10% will shoot .2
2 % will shoot .1

The most accurate 22's LR that I own or have owned in the Sporter category in not particular order are:
Remington 40 X Repeater -Still own this 1
Remington 541s
Remington 580 this one has had some work BUT still has the original BBL Action & Stock
Mauser 201/KDF 22
Sako 78 Heavy Barrel
Sako P94

The ones that have exceeded my expectations:

Winchester 74--I have two of these both will shoot 3/8"
Remington 511 --3/8"
Remington 580/581 I have 3 580's and 5 581 that will shoot .3

The ones that have disappointed with:

Winchester 52 Jap-VERY inconsistent between rifles most struggle to shoot 1/2"

Browning A-Bolt See Above

Sorry for the long post

Jim

Ammo has much to do with .22 accuracy. I don't know how many groups I have shot that were one pretty little hole with a flyer. Luck of the draw with bulk ammo. But part of the draw of a .22 is cheap ammo. I personally consider 10 shot groups that fit under a dime at 25 yards 'accurate'. At 50 yards keep them under a quarter for 10 is accurate. These have always been decent rifles (CZ 455's, 77/22's w/4-12 scopes etc) nothing fancy or dedicated target rigs with high mag scopes and shooting high velocity hunting type ammo. If I'm going to spend $12 per 50 I'll get 17hmr ammo - which is in a whole other league from .22lr.

The other thing that kills a good group with a .22 is wind - amazing how little it takes to make a mess of a fine group at 50 yards.....and unfortunately where I live the wind rarely ever stops.

"If you have been around the block a few times, would you say that, in general, that garden variety 22's made since the 90's are better shooters than older guns, say made from the 50's through 70's?"


Based on my Wifes Rem. 511 and the two Rem. 581's I had (all were scoped) and compared to my new Bolt Guns (2000 an later) I would say no they are pretty much the same.

Had many other older rimfire rifles... but they were not scoped.

I do not know if the ammunition is better, but what is available these days ... eg. Wolf MT, CCI Standard Velocity, etc. is better than the 'Bulk Quality' that I shot in the early 1970's thru the mid 90's.


Jerry

The statement about the wind is absolutely dead on when discussing rimfires. Went shooting yesterday with a buddy and we both have gotten the rimfire bug in a bad way the last few years. We have some very nice rimfires and some relatively inexpensive rifles so we like to take them out to see which is working best that day. I think we shot at least 12 different rifles yesterday.
My 50's vintage $250 Win 69A with a 2 x7 Leupold on it shot the best groups of the day with SK standard- around .3" . A couple of my other rifles approached that- Win 52B, Rem 541S, and my Win 75 Sporter but the real difference is the wind kicked up just after I finished shooting the 69A, so most of the groups I shot are relatively meaningless except for the fun factor. I did find the 69A loves the SK, but a couple other rifles really hated it and much preferred my old batch of Winchester Power Points and Federal Gold Medal Target. I"m just too cheap to buy expensive target ammo for these rifles, but the testing does show even some of the more affordable ammo can be quite accurate in the right rifle.

Half the fun is now I know I need to find a better, more wind free day and go out and test some more....

Bob

Thanks all.

I got a lot of good feedback from some people who sound like they know what they're talking about. Special thanks to Hippy for summing it up so well.

With good eyes my M34 Remington was/is a half inch gun at 50 yards with Eley Match. Two of my three sons can do the same today...

Hats off to the man who can shoot .2" all day long with power points