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In any rifle of 54 caliber of larger bore I see no advantage in using sub caliber bullets fitted to a sabot over just using a ball.
In 50 cal you have a 180 gr round ball (+or- a few grains) So a 230 to 300 grain bullet fired through it might have some advantage at least in theory.
In a 54 cal you have a ball of about 230 grains. In a 58 cal you have a ball of about 270 gr. A 62 fires a ball of about 325 grains. A 66 fires a 1 oz (437gr) ball. All of these shoot accurately at about 1800 FPS, to a max of about 1900 FPS.
It's false that bullets are more accurate. If you doubt this look at the records set at Friendship for 100 yard flintlock groups.
It is true that bullets will fly a bit fatter if the same velocity can be attained, but getting a 300 grain bullet up to 1800 FPS takes a lot of powder. But you still have to start holding elevation past your zero range. So if you can hold higher, you can hold higher. If you can't hold a good still gun, a flatter shooting bullet is of no value.
I make them for a living so I do know something about the subject. I have 3 bullet rifles int he works right now as I write this. They have been around since before our civil war and there is really nothing new (other than salesmanship.)
I reject the idea that any muzzleloader shoots flat. "Flat" is a bit of a misnomer. Flatter yes, but not flat.
The very best of them shoot in a trajectory about like a 30-30 out to 200 yards. Most are not even that flat with accurate loads.
If you want to hunt with a muzzleloader there can be only 2 reasons.
Reason #1 is the good reason; You want the extra challenge. That means you accept the range limitations and the fact that you get one chance only.
Reason #2 is that you want to find a way to cheat the majority of other hunters. The folks in the gun business are super willing to feed you the lie that their "super modern muzzleloader" is the answer. "You can have a modern long range flat shooting gun and hunt in a season with far less competition" is what they are selling, and like libs and dems, thye are lying to you. But feel no guilt because they know they are actually selling to those that want to cheat anyway. Cheating a cheater is the norm today unfortunately.
I like the old fashioned guns but it's not a religion to me. If you like modern stainless guns with plastic stocks and scopes, use them. But learn to use them well and go back to "reason #1". Reject Reason #2 as a lie, Because it IS a lie.
Accept the challenge of being a better hunter and the tool you use is not that important. If you want to kill elk use a projectile that will penetrate at least 28" deep and learn to use it well.
Last edited by szihn; 05/14/17.
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Campfire Tracker
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Back to the original poster with a .50cal, 1-28twist, inline.
I shot a bunch of .452 hard cast pistol bullets (250grn RNFP) with MMP sabots in the Knight .50 and the Savage MLII .50, they shot great.
They also recoil a bit less than some of the heavier conicals I've tried.
I can't muzzleloader hunt here in Co. with sabots or a scope but I like to shoot and I like to see if I have some options.
When I use the muzzleloader for elk again I'll be using a Federal Bor-lock or Thor conical.
Your 330grn WFN should work perfectly.
Good luck with your hunt!
Last edited by colodog; 05/14/17. Reason: add comment
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,111 Likes: 6 |
Reason #1 is the good reason; You want the extra challenge. That means you accept the range limitations and the fact that you get one chance only.
Reason #2 is that you want to find a way to cheat the majority of other hunters. The folks in the gun business are super willing to feed you the lie that their "super modern muzzleloader" is the answer. "You can have a modern long range flat shooting gun and hunt in a season with far less competition" is what they are selling, and like libs and dems, thye are lying to you. But feel no guilt because they know they are actually selling to those that want to cheat anyway. Cheating a cheater is the norm today unfortunately
I like reason #3. In Colorado I can draw a muzzle loader tag and then by an OTC rifle elk tag,giving me two elk hunts per year. I have three muzzle loaders of different styles,so I change up whenever I feel like doing something different
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Tracker
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"I like reason #3. In Colorado I can draw a muzzle loader tag and then by an OTC rifle elk tag,giving me two elk hunts per year. I have three muzzle loaders of different styles,so I change up whenever I feel like doing something different"
Oh now that's cool! I would maybe go for Reason #3 too. I have never heard of that anywhere else.
Last edited by szihn; 05/14/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm solidly in the #2 camp.
Happy to hunt in a season that offers less pressure, better areas, and better dates.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
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"I like reason #3. In Colorado I can draw a muzzle loader tag and then by an OTC rifle elk tag,giving me two elk hunts per year. I have three muzzle loaders of different styles,so I change up whenever I feel like doing something different"
Oh now that's cool! I would maybe go for Reason #3 too. I have never heard of that anywhere else. In Co,there are "A", "B", and "C" tags. You can have one "A" tag and a "B" tag or two "B" tags. "C" tags are crop damage, special tags l, and some private land owner tags. No limit in them. The "A" tags are draw, and usually OTC bull tags.Most"B" tags are cow tags. But that is ok, I like to eat cows better
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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L like reason # 4, to hunt elk during the rut with a firearm. Or reason #5, to hunt the Colorado mountains in September, rather than October or November.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yea, those warmer seasons are getting to be a lot more enjoyable to me.Except for the rain
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Tracker
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Anything but a powerbelt
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Joined: Jan 2016
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 96,081 Likes: 19 |
Ive shot antelope and deer with the 50 cal round ball. I wiuld never hunt elk with it. TC maxi or Powerbelt for me for them in 50 cal. Not saying a RB through the ribs broadside wont do it, but i never got the primo shot with rifle, ml, or bow.
I do prefer the Blackhorn powder.
Last edited by jaguartx; 05/14/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2016
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Anything but a powerbelt Why?
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Anything but a powerbelt Why? Apparently they've acquired the reputation of not holding together or "pancaking". No idea if it is deserved or not.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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For me, the main reason to use a muzzle loader is simply more enjoyment of the sport I love. The extra legal hunting time is nice, but in Texas, it comes AFTER both archery and general firearms season. There may be less competition, but the game is likely to be somewhat "shell-shocked" and maybe more wary. Just the fact that we have enough deer now to allow these "special seasons" is something to celebrate. I have always done much of my hunting with single shots, and really enjoy the in line muzzle loading systems - although I admit to myself that they seem to have evolved as a way to get an edge in a supposedly "primitive weapons" season. Has nothing really to do with perceived "traditions" - I get no thrill from playing Daniel Boone, though I do not begrudge those who do.
Mike
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Anything but a powerbelt Why? Apparently they've acquired the reputation of not holding together or "pancaking". No idea if it is deserved or not. Mainly among those who've never shot an elk with them, like bigblock.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The 295 powerbelts shoot nice out of my tc. Im gonna try em on a deer or hog hopefully this year along with maybe some great plains bullets. I heard the PB dont like to be pushed too fast.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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That's true. And if you use them for elk I'd recommend the 348s or larger.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The 295 powerbelts shoot nice out of my tc. Im gonna try em on a deer or hog hopefully this year along with maybe some great plains bullets. I heard the PB dont like to be pushed too fast. They act like any other projectile made out of pure lead. Just like pushing a cup and core bullet over 3000fps out of a center fire rifle and expecting it to hold together at 50 yards Here's one that went thru an elk ending up under the hide on the far side, 90 gr FFG black powder, 295 gr Power belt.I have since stepped up to the 348 gr however. Here is the elk. That bump on the hide just behind the ribs is that bullet. Entered just behind the shoulder , quartering rearward thru liver.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I shoot'em with Round Balls. They don't fall apart.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How many elk have you shot with powerbelts, and had them fall apart?
I don't expect an answer, it's just a rhetorical question so that anyone reading this can judge the value of your opinion.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I shot a bull broadside with a 348 grain powerbelt at 105 yards. Was using 110 grains of 777 if I recall that detail correctly. He took off dragging his onside leg so I unfortunately got too close to the shoulder. Waited a bit and walked down to where he was. Saw 2 piles of frothy pink lung blood, literally 2-3" tall and filled with air bubbles. So I know very definitely I got one lung. I searched for 1.5 days for that bull and never recovered him. It is the only elk I ever lost and still pisses me off. I'll take closer shots with a roundball or about 100 yard max with heavy solid nose conicals from now on.
Not saying that many haven't had excellent luck with them, but I've killed every other elk shot with 370 grain maxiballs and am going back to them. If I hadn't caught shoulder, I am sure he would have died quickly. Still a bummer.
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