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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,276
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,276 |
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 623
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 623 |
9mm Parrabellum - it's the Nazis cartridge of choice. 260 "Creed" - it's not a sound "x57" of German heritage.
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 104
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 104 |
I developed a quick dislike of the 'WSM, and 'WSSM' suffix quickly,the entire cartridge family.
all advertising hype, yet with ballistics identical to existing cartridges already long established. Also it seemed like everyone interested in them would brag about the merits of such a supreme cartridge, just because it was the "newest, latest, greatest and most improved- with antibacterial electrolites in every box"-while turning a blind eye to published data showing the reality of the caliber's performance.
not to mention the weird case(s), and the only advantage touted as the 'short throw' of the actions they were chambered in. today they are rarely talked about, and I never see ammo for them on shelves- I think 5mm Remington anyone?
Sadly the Creedmore is following the same path- all hype and glitter, yet does nothing the 100+ year old swede doesn't already do without a publicity agent singing about it.
Desert shooter
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,308
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,308 |
the only cartridges, I would not buy a gun for is the 30 carbine, the 25 auto, the 32 auto or one of the niche cartridges that fits into an ar15 but cannot be found on a gun shops shelves. I don't really hate any of them just cannot see a practical use for them.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,083
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,083 |
jwall, I got my old .300 in about 1970.. Great caliber.. BUT as you mentioned necking the 7mm R. up to .30.. Brought to mind a couple guys I met in Casper.. They told me that had developed a round that would beat the 300WM by a huge margin.. The necked the 7mm R up to .30 cal.. a real super winner.. They were young 25 or so.. When you are old, life is really interesting!!! , to an 18 mile sheep mountain, backpacking. Met two guys about my age coming back out after failing to navigate a mountain some 5 miles farther in. Scruffy, bearded, looked dirty personally, but newly Safari clad, with brand new Weatherby's.. I took them for drug dealers. Our short encounter ended when they asked me what I was carrying. ".243." "I never heard of that caliber" "Well, i gotta get going now!" The mountain that defeated them has a name, but we just call it "Big Ugly". Looks bad, but really a piece of cake, as long as you go (nearly) over it (there is a bench about 90 feet lower than the peak) and not try to side-hill at elevation as they did. That could kill you! Just stay on the caribou trail that goes right up the crest of the spur. If there's no game rail around the side of the mountain, it's likely not a good idea..... and if you are too stupid not to follow game trails... well! ! I killed a full curl in there that year and the next, with that .243, which I still have but have never warmed to..My wife took another full curl on our honeymoon the third year, with a .270 (now an '06 - both were/are bug hole shooters until my brother left the 270 in a damp basement over-winter, and I had to re-barrel..). He r ram was bigger , of course..... . I took my rams at about 30 and 100 yards, respectively, and hers was at about 35. Even a gun you don't like can work! I still have that .243, and still don't like it, tho i've got it shooting MOA, instead of the 2 pls it has for the last 40 years, and literally tons of game. Just cuz it works, doesn't mean I have to like it....
Last edited by las; 06/01/17.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
the only cartridges, I would not buy a gun for is the 30 carbine, the 25 auto, the 32 auto or one of the niche cartridges that fits into an ar15 but cannot be found on a gun shops shelves. I don't really hate any of them just cannot see a practical use for them. I never thought much of the .25 auto either, but could not pass up a used Beretta 950, in the box, for $149 and pennies. It get used for special occasions, most recently at Daughter #3's wedding. Had it in my pocket as I waled her down the aisle. Older Bro had a Glock 9mm and two spare 17-round mags under his suit coat, 52 rounds total. Definitely a better choice for problem resolution.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
9mm Parrabellum - it's the Nazis cartridge of choice. 260 "Creed" - it's not a sound "x57" of German heritage. Why does a 6.5 have to be an x57 descendant to be a good cartridge? (Answer: It doesn't.) The 9mm Parabellum was introduced in 1902, long before the Nazis were around. Modern loads make it a very effective cartridge.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,220
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,220 |
any of the winchester silly magnums or winchester super silly magnums
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313 |
I find it odd that so many people get knicker twisted about the WSM series. Given how much is right about them - no belt, lots of capacity for the length, high efficiency and reduced recoil for a given bullet weight and velocity - I have to wonder if y'all are just being contrary.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241 |
When a guy has a couple chambered in 7mmRemMagnificent, the WSM is a non issue.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313 |
When a guy has a couple chambered in 7mmRemMagnificent, the WSM is a non issue. Look, I like the 7RM too - about 90% of my big game kills have been with a M70 7RM. But I have to admit that if the 7 WSM/7 SAUM had caught on, they would flat out be a better cartridge. Same velocity, same bullets, less recoil, in a short action with the option for a lighter/shorter rifle. Pondering what the 7RM does better, I have to conclude the answer is 'nothing' from a technical perspective and I say that as a fan of the 7RM. The only advantage for the 7RM is inertia.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,641
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,641 |
Some cartridges I've never been able to like are the .243 Win, .270 Win, 7RM, and .300 Win. I've owned one of the first but never any of the latter cuz I have a .30-06 and don't need em.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,748
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,748 |
You shut your mouth. Take it back! Lol
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,832
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,832 |
I find it odd that so many people get knicker twisted about the WSM series. Given how much is right about them - no belt, lots of capacity for the length, high efficiency and reduced recoil for a given bullet weight and velocity - I have to wonder if y'all are just being contrary. High efficiency? What precisely does that mean? A rather interesting test was made using the same barrel chambered first to 300 H&H and then to 300 WSM. Doing it in that order meant there was the same length of barrel in front of the chamber for each test. Guess what? Even with their greatly different shapes the two cases with the same capacities produced practically identical velocities using the same quantities of the same powders.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Long Action .........waaaa Belts ......... waaaa Recoil .....waaaa SHEESH ! !
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,783
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,783 |
efw, if you only use an 06, you don't know what you are missing.. When I was 24 I thought the 06 was it..🤣Now I realize it was just the start..😜
Molon Labe
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,350
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,350 |
I don't miss anything I shoot at with my 06.
Music washes away the dust of everyday life Some people wait a lifetime to meet their favorite hunting and shooting buddy. Mine calls me dad
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313 |
High efficiency? What precisely does that mean?
Ballistic efficiency is defined as the fraction of the energy in the powder that ends up as bullet kinetic energy as opposed to heat, moving parts of the gun, etc.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
Indeed. High efficiency is defined as all the energy & time you save on the short bolt throw
Defend the Constitution
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,832
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,832 |
High efficiency? What precisely does that mean?
Ballistic efficiency is defined as the fraction of the energy in the powder that ends up as bullet kinetic energy as opposed to heat, moving parts of the gun, etc. Then the experiment I described above showed the 300 WSM to be no more efficient than the 300 H&H with its long, sloping case design.
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