Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .22 RF alternatives

Well, I looked at it a bit but for now I'm not that twisted. Seeing an easier path or testing this at the moment and might save up for a proper barrel for that bullet down the road.

"The flying pencil"

Thank you, Bruce! That entire issue was gold. I was 4 months old when it was published and I pored over every page. Gonna try not to binge on that website, but got ideas for a couple projects from that one.

Best,

Dan

Guy named Lee Martin of single action pro boards site created cartridge called .257 Jackrabbit based on cutdown .25/20 case in order to work in Ruger Single-Six.

Probably larger than your goals but it sounds like it could be a CF reincarnation of Keith's pet .25 Rimfire. Cat Sneeze to supersonic potential in Single Shots & handguns.

I'd go softest alloy, EXTREME taper bore, maybe even Paradox with something of that length.

GTC

OK all you fellas, I got a challenge for your idle minds. I know the answer, but want to see if you can ferret this out.

You're sitting around idle and start a conversation here on the 'Fire about alternatives to .22 RF ammo. It leads you to consider a path to making standard .22 RF rifles...uh...flexible and capable of using CF ammo. Making them go both ways in a manner of speaking.

So you start rummaging around, pestering half the good fellas that dabble with making hardware, but there's a few unanswered questions related to specs. You see, when you start pulling RF bullets they get deformed and leave you making educated guesses. I hate guesses.

How does a fella remove a LR bullet from a loaded RF case without A) hurting himself and B) screwing up the bullet heel?

The clock is ticking wankers, what's your theory?

DD

Next question, and I know the answer to this as well.

How does one crimp a LR case after it's loaded, given a bullet and case O.D. of .224" on both?

Tick, tick, tick, tick.....

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.myshopify.com/products/22-reloader-kit

Haven't done any research on the subject, that is just the first thing that popped up.


Don't know if it's any good or not, but even if it ain't, it might give you ideas about what refinements need be done.

IIRC, the primed, charged, and bullet loosely fitted case runs through a set of from rolls,.....simultaneously getting crimped, and the bullet OD formed in concentricity with the body. in some cases a Pattern is even rolled into the bullet's waist.

GTC

The crimp trick is done by handloaders with a variation of the Lee Factory Crimp die (collet). Spoke with the fellow from Old West earlier today on that and a few other things. His crimp die is so configured and the shell holder is height adjustable to allow seating in short cases along with the LR version.

Thought you meant at the factowy.

Is that Old West deal the setup that Garbe was using ?

GTC

Dunno what that cowboy used, figured you were thinking factory. I gots to look at it from the handloader's perspective.

Not sure I want to travel the Old West path on this, mostly because I have zero experience with that style of crimp die and haven't a clue if they are capable of being delicate and that's all I think necessary. Pondering a slight of hand trick wherein the heel has a minor taper from base to seat index, maybe .002" of taper with the base just a bit over sized or something of that sort. Minor flare on the case mouth to enable seating then a very minor bump back to .224" OD on the case. Bullet will be .224" OD on the belt/drive band. Short version: Brass wall .008" x 2 = .016. Heel might be .209" at the base and .207" at the index.

I ponder such things in the darkness of ignorance.

Any idea how I extracted that bullet without deforming it?

Gotta confess I'm at a loss as to how you did it, DD. Was the case perfectly intact when done? Bullet perfectly un-marred? I've pried more than a few out in my life but it always resulted in one or the other being too mangled for re-use.

I have used a inertia puller with foam in the end that catches the bullet, but you probably just shot it straight up and caught it on the way down.

from a smoothbore. Don't want any rifling marks....

You guys are just too clever! -laffin'-

It wasn't quite straight up, I had to use my track shoes to get under it for the score.

OK, I give up. Tubing cutter, blade at mid point in the case and very gradual increase of cutting pressure. Turn a couple times, tweak the knob etc. NOT that knob....

After about 3-4 minutes the case broke in half and I began phase 2. Dumped the powder, picked up the small wire cutters, aka dykes and split the case up to about 1/16' shy of the bullet base. Peeled the two lobes back and pulled out the hacksaw. Couple or 12 back strokes to score the side of the case, 2 pair of needle nose pliers and the case mouth split as I rolled them apart. Bullet dropped out with a very minor nick on one side of the heel from the saw. 39.6 grains. .208" diameter on the heel, that being about .110" long.

Redneck engineering rocks...........

I am pleased to reveal my secrets and introduce you to the .22 Sniffler.



L-R: .22 BB Cap, 7mm neck expander, .22 Sniffler, .22 CB Short, .22 Fed Auto Match

Note the precision of the union between the bullet (WW .22 LR EZXS) and the Sniffler case. It will require a 16" twist. And now, the precision tools used to craft this stroke of genius. Please note the relative size of the round in comparison with the tools. It is proper that I pass along wisdom bestowed in years long gone by a competent gunsmith: "It's not the tools, it's the operator that counts."



Dan

PS: The neck expander required somewhat greater than moderate thumb pressure to open the case mouth sufficient to accept the bullet.

Had a hot MILF tell me the same thing a few years back. Never knew what she meant.



Did you need to crimp the bullet in place after seating it? I see no crimping tool.

Nah, no crimp. Left over parts stuck together for giggles. Was pleased to find there was a bit of neck tension however. Wouldn't hold together in a repeater, but it wouldn't be obvious to the casual observer. Funny part of this exercise is the imponderables that pop up, and in this case, an answer or two. the bullet confirmed my earlier estimates of compatible dims for bullet heel, brass thickness and case diameter.

Amazes me how uppity wenches can be from time to time.

Well, the wheels turn slowly, but it looks to me like this is starting to come together, albeit with a couple of twists and turns unexpected.

I mentioned previously that the priming compound mix for a variety of US manufactured ammo appeared to be very consistent. It presents as a greenish yellow mix that is not terribly uniform in application. Sort of swabbed in is the way it looks. This was common to three brands and 6 different styles of ammo. The stuff from Yurp was different. The Wolf is remarkably consistent in form and though it presents as an injected mass it's appearance is almost that of a card wad. The D-N ammo appears to have a card wad overlying the primer. If you look closely at the WW case on the right you will see a very small touch of bare brass, slightly off center. What is not obvious is the smearing around the case bottom and there was actually some primer mix in the case just below the bullet.



Also mentioned previously that US manufactured ammo was consistent in O.D. for bullet and case at .224", and case wall thickness. I took it upon myself to dissect several rounds of Wolf MT and had a couple of surprises as a result. In comparison, the US manufactured ammo used a thicker case wall (.008") than the Wolf (.007") and the former was of a noticeably more brittle alloy. Corresponding bullet heel dimensions were different as well with a nominal heel diameter of .211" (Wolf) vs. .208" (all US brands). This represents a difference of neck tension on one part, and is perhaps why all US ammo had slightly deformed heel bases. The most telling thing I notice in the comparison, is the bullets and charge. The geometry of the Wolf bullets is virtually flawless. The measurements are monotonously consistent, as is the bullet weight and powder charge of 40.0 and 1.0 grains, +/- ZERO. Such was not the case with US manufactured ammo, with charge variation of up to .1 grain and bullet weight variance of up to .4 grains in my sampling.

A question was posed previously about the difference of primer power between RF and CF ammo and based on my observations it is entirely possible the WOLF ammo has more priming compound in the case that will be found in a small pistol primer. A puzzle awaiting an answer in the field I'd think.

Short version, the Wolf answered a few questions for me and defined the path I'll take with this project.

Stay tuned...