Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Do you consider the 1911 obsolete for concealed carry

I think if the Glock had debuted with a safety identical in location and operation to the 1911's, it would still be a huge success; and a few less people might have shot themselves in the ass with one.

….not wanting to be amazingly arrogant nor oblivious to it……the fact that many (almost all) of the new striker-fired guns have retro-engineered slide (thumb) safeties on their guns AFTER the original specie hit the market would seem to be a giant fly in the ointment of that argument. The Govt. mandated safety on the military version of the Sig 320 would seem to unravel the "obsolescence" issue of the argument that people with an adrenaline dump can't/won't work the safety. The non-Govt mandated companies (S&W M&P for example) voluntarily added the safety (and did a VERY poor job of it btw. So it would seem that "modern trends" as you call them are not a straight and narrow path, in fact, the trend appears to have made a U-turn.

Okey dokey………my wife has a S&W Shield with a hideous little-tiny-miniscule-nubbin of a slide safety, a truly poorly designed and ill-thought-out example of a slide safety; HOWEVER, when I occasionally borrow it and wear it in a "sticky" pocket holster, I very much appreciate having it there compared to the times that I carry a G-43 in the same rig and pocket. With the G-43, I get nervous every time I have to lift my leg to get into my truck, when I sit down or stretch my legs…..with the Shield I don't think/worry about it.

Yes, I've heard this before. I remember that it was a common point of criticism when it was popular to post that video of the DEA agent who shot himself.

TRH, For the sake of moving your increasingly uninteresting discussion to its logical conclusion, let's stipulate that you - and maybe others - just can't train to a level of proficiency that you can disengage the TS reliably during presentation of a 1911.

A 1911 is perfectly safe to carry cocked with just the grip safety off, in a prioper holster. LTC Cooper cited examples of this practice and I've proven this to myself and consider it to be 'Condition 1/2'. It's not my routine practice, and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it over proper training, but if I were as convinced as you that i couldn't reliably deactivate the TS, I might consider this as a viable option.

If you prefer something other than a 1911, great for you! No need for sophistry to try to prove the unprovable, or to convince yourself that a majority share your conclusions. Pick your SD pistol and own up to the choice. Hopefully you won't ever need to test it.

To the OP:

In the same way that a wood burning fireplace is obsolete for home heat.................

I read a while back when Gaston Glock was asked about the problems policed were having with negligent discharges he replied he designed the pistol for the Austrian army and designed it to be carried with an empty chamber. YMMV

That makes sense.

Arrogance is assuming that nobody else is capable of doing something you can't do.

Since when did leaving a safety off qualify as technology?

No.

Y'all can argue the details if you want.

I still favor the 1911 over any and all Glocks. Glocks just don't fit my hands, and there are other alternatives that DO fit my hands that are equally reliable (XD, M&P). I'd take THOSE pistols over any Glock.

BUT, 1911s, BHPs and CZ-75ish guns fit my hands better yet.

No, they are NOT obsolete.

I liken it more to the air support used in Vietnam. Jets carried big payloads of bombs, but a A-1 Skyraider or two on station is a comfort that a fast-mover cannot match. They both work.

Combining that with a trigger type that doesn't require one (any more than a double action revolver does) is what I'm referring to.

Obsolete? No.. Heavy? Yep.. But the right high-quality holster can ease the latter.. I've got a Milt Sparks that clings that Kimber to my waist like saran wrap..

The wrong holster will make it feel like yer carryin' a 12" cement block..


On the other hand, the extra capacity of (say) the Ruger SR9C (17+) can make it a better choice over the 1911 when traveling in neighborhoods such as North Murderapolis where the little urban troubadours usually travel in packs of 4+... ...

One of our armorers always exclaims, "Ah, a blackpowder pistol." when shown a 1911. IIRC, John Browning submitted, what was to become the 1911, without the thumb safety but, the Army demanded it be added.

I believe I recall that, as well.

The trigger is not as long of a pull as a double action and with the amount of AD's one could argue that it indeed needs a safety.

I can see that as a reasonable basis for disagreement, for sure. Depends on where you place your priorities, i.e., more on eliminating the need to disengage a manual thumb safety for that crucial first shot out of the holster, or more on decreasing the chance of an unintended discharge. Reasonable people can certainly disagree as to those aims and where they fall on that continuum. As for me, I think the length of travel and weight (on an unaltered Glock's trigger) provides sufficient margin for safety in the direction of that provided by a double action revolver so as not to require a manual thumb safety in order to operate safely. Again, reasonable people may differ on this, and it would depend on where they place the greater emphasis.

Of course not...

My EDC is a Glock 19. It is so because it is a compromise for me for concealability and capacity. I shoot it very well and don't worry about it going bang.

That being said, if I could afford that sweet Wilson that Mackay posted that is 1911 (2011?) with G19 size and capacity, I would buy it and carry it in a heartbeat. Maybe now that it is out, someone else will copy and make one a normal guy can afford. I see that STI makes one similar, but also similar price..

I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from that. A look at all of JMB's prototypes will show he always left the safety to the producer of the weapon. I don't think I've ever seen a JMB prototype with a manual safety. Of course all the exposed hammer guns had a half cock, but his guns with no external hammer don't have safeties. That doesn't appear to show any "mantra" of his, but rather allowing the producer (whom is taking all the risk) decide how to address the safety.