We've had "good" roosters and "bad" roosters. They were all hand raised and well socialized but some wanted to chase my wife who takes care of all the chicken chores daily. They never bothered me because I'd punt the cock into the next county when they tried it with me. I came home from the store one day to find the shotgun out action open. Apparently my wife was in no mood to be chased by the little cock and she decided that enough is enough and blew the roosters head off. She bagged him up and I turned him into a full pot of Dungeness crab. A whole feathered chicken guts and all is the best crab bait I've ever fished if left to sit longer than 24 hours. The pot was so full I don't think another crab would'a fit in it.
We lost a good rooster a week ago in an unprovoked eagle attack. 😁 This damn eagle found that hunting live chickens provided 3 days of food for her chicks. Every 3 days she'd come back and take another chicken. I finally added some cover and better protection for them and haven't had a casualty since. I chased the eagle off one day and it dropped the chicken into the bushes. That poor chicken wasn't hurt bad but was lying on its back upside down in the bushes in shock. Chickens are funny and they provide hours of entertainment, eagles are a PIA around here especially when they've got a couple of chicks to feed.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
"Bull fight" is an inadequate translation for the event. At the heart of it, it is in fact a ritualistic killing to depict the dominance of man over nature, and the Spanish do not apologize for this. In Spain, the corrida is not reported in the sports pages of the newspaper, but rather in the cultural section, much as with the arts in a US paper.
There is much going on in a corrida that those not familiar with the event will not see or understand. There are rules, and as with all rules there are people who break them. The bulls are supposed to be watched before the event by people from the ranch they come from. (A corrida is usually 6 bulls, 3 matadors killing 2 each, and usually all the bulls are from the same ranch.) The bulls are guarded to prevent the them being drugged, their horns shortened or blunted (changing their horns messes them up something like suddenly changing the distance from mound to home plate would screw up a baseball pitcher. Neither the bulls or the pitcher would be as effective.), or putting Vaseline in their eyes to cloud their vision. But, cheating of this sort does occur. Spain is Spain, and matadors don't want to get killed.
It is true the bulls are weakened by the picadores. But if they overly damage the bull by doing more than weakening the neck, they are booed with derision. The banderillas are placed to "adjust" the bull, but also for the matador to watch and determine if the bull comes low, high, right, left, etc., much as one "scouts" an opponent. Sometimes the matador places the banderillas himself. In the middle stages of the "fight" the matador proves his skill and bravery by how close he allows the bull to pass him as he works the cape. When it comes time to kill the bull, the matador uses not a large cape, but a small red one called a muleta. In order to properly kill the bull, the matador must show that he has control of the bull well enough to go in over the horns, exposing himself as he places the sword. If he does not do this, but instead comes from the side, he is booed with derision and is said to have "assassinated the bull."
I write all this not to defend, but to provide context. A corrida properly viewed is about the matador showing his mastery and bravery. It is not about taking pleasure in watching an animal being tortured. But, at the end of the day, it is in fact a ritualistic killing, and it is bloody, it is difficult, and things often go awry. Often, the bull is not killed cleanly. And sometimes, as in this case, people are injured or killed.
How one feels about all this is up to them. But we should at least understand the thing, even if we choose to condemn it. To dismiss it as a crowd of perverted people enjoying an animal being tortured is uninformed.
Hunting is different. Any hunter I respect wants the animal to die as quickly and painlessly as possible. Every animal is going to die. Considering all the ways nature ends life, dying at the hands of a good hunter is one of the most humane for an animal. By definition, the timing is sooner than another way, but the end should be humane. I don't know anyone who wounds an animal for pleasure or to provide an opportunity to practice their tracking skills, and I would not tolerate such a thing. But, as noted already by others, sometimes the killing part of hunting does not go well. When it does not, we should consider our part in why it happened and endeavor to not let it happen again.
Comparing any type of hunting, even dangerous game hunting, to a corrida makes no sense to me.
Well said.
Although I've never been to the arena. I did get to spend a night with a young woman whose family raised fighting bulls in Colombia. Learned a lot about them, the culture and the reason behind bull fighting. I never wanted to go see a bullfight, but after learning more, I thought it might be alright to take in the whole spectacle from beginning to end.
Their country, their culture, their rules. I have no complaint.
No dog fights, no cock fights, no bull fights, no dog racing, no horse racing, no rodeos, no circus, no hunting, no fishing using treble hooks, no fishing soon after, and no end to the bans in sight.
All humans are not equal. Some arent even human. No wonder they werent Gods chosen. If your hunting dog embarrasses you just starve it to death, or hang it by the road standing on its hind legs until it gives up.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
All humans are not equal. Some arent even human. No wonder they werent Gods chosen. If your hunting dog embarrasses you just starve it to death, or hang it by the road standing on its hind legs until it gives up.
Reports say that the Bull's left horn penetrated the Matador's anus and was buried up to the skull. The undertaker is reportedly unable to remove the smile from the deceased's face.
Really? What a totally unclassy thing to say...
GMAFB. Are you serious? Do you know what they do to these animals prior to the "Dance"? Obviously, you don't. The deck is stacked heavily against the animal. Fortunately, most always, the meat is consumed at the end. "Bull Fighter" isn't quite an accurate description of a Matador. Piercing the heart of the bull, through the shoulder blades, after an extended blood letting, and weakening of the animal, is the goal. No doubt there is still a lot of danger in what they do. But I don't feel a damn bit sorry for one that the animal gets the best of, before it is destroyed.
I have no problem with the sport, or with the outcome. Both of those don't remove the stigma you create for yourself as a d!ckhead. If you can't see that your post was grossly offensive, regardless of what you think of bullfighting, then you d!ckhead crown is earned.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
All humans are not equal. Some arent even human. No wonder they werent Gods chosen. If your hunting dog embarrasses you just starve it to death, or hang it by the road standing on its hind legs until it gives up.
Can't watch it.
I couldnt either. Most humans beings cant, yet people, otoh, do it. People may have been on this earth a lot longer than human beings, or would that be vice versa ? Baboons can sit there and pull the arms or legs off another critter. Just saying.
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/19/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
No dog fights, no cock fights, no bull fights, no dog racing, no horse racing, no rodeos, no circus, no hunting, no fishing using treble hooks, no fishing soon after, and no end to the bans in sight.
People get arrested all the time here for animal cruelty, which is a felony and probably should be. Anyone who gets their jollies out of torturing animals to death is a sick mother f^cker for sure. Anyone who compares such to hunting and/or fails to see a difference between torturing an animal to death and butchering farm stock, racing horses,rodeos or hunting should probably seek professional help or perhaps turn themselves in to the police or psych ward before they hurt somebody. As a hunter and farmer I've killed thousands of animals. All, whether wild or domestic, were killed as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Bulls have to win once in a while. Got no prob with the ritual, or the outcome....whatever it might be. Hell, I'll have a steak tomorrow in honor of the bull
I don't have a problem, either. That's a Spanish tradition, and I think they are entitled to it. I was just trying to make a laugh, when someone got bent out of shape. I think they know the risks, when they enter the ring. Hard for me to feel bad when the animal wins.
The 1st post says it was in France, not Spain.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
referring to what they do when they confiscate the roosters.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
I went to a bull fight in Mexico when I was a boy.
I don't care to again, although at the time, it didn't bother me at all. It was just a common bull fight.
I don't care to see any animal suffer. The older I get the more it bothers me.
But ethics are subjective.
Cultural mores are subjective as well.
There's lots of people living in glass houses casting stones here though...
I've not been to a bullfight, and have no plans to do so, but if I was in Pamplona or Madrid and a bullfight was offered, I might take it in. I'm not sure I'd enjoy it, but it would be something I'd be interested in seeing, in its context.
And context is the missing element in most of the comments here on the 'Fire, particularly the negative comments. If you haven't walked a mile, etc... needs to be taken to heart here. This context is of two primary forms: first biological, and second cultural.
Biological context: Spain's fighting bulls are, as Hatari correctly points out, a species with no agricultural value whatsoever. They are as useless to a farmer as tits on a boar. They are related in part to the extinct wild ox of Europe, the Aurochs, which is extinct for much the same reason that wolves are extinct in Europe... they had a propensity for killing people. Same thing with the Spanish fighting bulls. They're mean and nasty and they kill people. And unlike our American bison, they don't make tasty meat for the table in an economically feasible manner. So, if there wasn't a use for them in the bullring, they'd pretty much be wiped out, except in zoos.
Cultural/anthropological context: Spaniards started fighting bulls in this ritualistic manner a long time ago, possibly several thousand years ago. Bullfighting, in various forms, has been a popular blood sport in many societies going back through medieval Europe to ancient Rome, Greece, and at least as far back as the Minoans. The ways and means of fighting bulls have varied, but the common theme seems to have been that the bull's death is the universal conclusion of the ritual. The primeval reasons underlying this common ritual are unclear, but even those of us who condemn the Spanish bullfight outright have to acknowledge that fear of bulls is a pretty universal human emotion, so we can start with "fear" as one of the foundation stones of the construct.
People have a propensity to confront the things they fear in a manner that makes them feel like they have power over the object of their fear, hence the popularity of scary tattoos and horror movies. Bullfighting was and is akin to a living tattoo, socially speaking.
And it isn't just bulls that people fear and confront through bullfighting... the ritual symbolizes overcoming the untamed world, the ominous sounds in the dark, the lightning and thunder, the stench of death and pestilence. The Spanish people are alone among the European nations for refusing to become urbanized eunuchs, and they cling to their bullfighting and Catholicism like we Americans cling to our guns and Bibles.
Americans, even huntin'-fishin'-baccy-chewin' red-blooded boys like all us here on the 'Fire, have much more in common with the Spaniards than we do with the French or the Italians in this instance. You can cry about the suffering of the bull in the ring (who is a fighter himself, make no mistake... he loves to fight and moreover he LIVES to fight!), but his suffering in the bullring is only a difference in degree compared to the suffering of animals on our farms and ranches, slaughterhouses and feedlots and pig barns and chicken coops. If you want to get sanctimonious about the pain of the bull, then you'd best start to prepare to hand over your hunting licenses, rifles, and shotguns, and while we're at it, get ready to start grilling tofu.
Because that's the logical extension of all that whining, boys.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
Despicable greyhound racing abuse occurring in Juarez, Mexic for years. Lots of gambling money changing hands at the expense and misery of those poor dogs.
Despicable greyhound racing abuse occurring in Juarez, Mexic for years. Lots of gambling money changing hands at the expense and misery of those poor dogs.
still goes on here only difference is the gov gets a cut of the money like horse racing.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
Despicable greyhound racing abuse occurring in Juarez, Mexic for years. Lots of gambling money changing hands at the expense and misery of those poor dogs.
We have despicable greyhound racing in this country as well. They are not allowed to retire after their best racing days.
We've had "good" roosters and "bad" roosters. They were all hand raised and well socialized but some wanted to chase my wife who takes care of all the chicken chores daily. They never bothered me because I'd punt the cock into the next county when they tried it with me. I came home from the store one day to find the shotgun out action open. Apparently my wife was in no mood to be chased by the little cock and she decided that enough is enough and blew the roosters head off. She bagged him up and I turned him into a full pot of Dungeness crab. A whole feathered chicken guts and all is the best crab bait I've ever fished if left to sit longer than 24 hours. The pot was so full I don't think another crab would'a fit in it.
We lost a good rooster a week ago in an unprovoked eagle attack. 😁 This damn eagle found that hunting live chickens provided 3 days of food for her chicks. Every 3 days she'd come back and take another chicken. I finally added some cover and better protection for them and haven't had a casualty since. I chased the eagle off one day and it dropped the chicken into the bushes. That poor chicken wasn't hurt bad but was lying on its back upside down in the bushes in shock. Chickens are funny and they provide hours of entertainment, eagles are a PIA around here especially when they've got a couple of chicks to feed.
Don't socialize them anymore than is necessary to open the coop door to let them and the hens out in the morning and they will act a lot better. The best acting roosters we have had on this place were completely ignored from day 1. The absolute worse ones were her "pets". Acted like miserable spawns of satan. No picking them up when they are young and trying to "tame" them or make them your buddies. Just ignore them. When I finally convinced my wife of that, the days of having some absolutely miserable roosters around, ended. But they are roosters, even at that eventually a person is likely to get one that the DNA is set on full.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
Despicable greyhound racing abuse occurring in Juarez, Mexic for years. Lots of gambling money changing hands at the expense and misery of those poor dogs.
We have despicable greyhound racing in this country as well. They are not allowed to retire after their best racing days.
oldelk,
Whatever one thinks of dog racing, it's not entirely true that they "are not allowed to retire". My wife and I have whippets and take them to coursing and informal racing events. We have met numerous retired racing greyhounds at these events, they actually make pretty good pets as a generalization. Of course, there are some owners that probably don't retire their dogs, but after meeting so many of them I think the number of those type of owners is in decline.
Here's a few links to some retirement/rescue programs:
The world has changed in some ways that are "good", having more owners who retire their dogs is one of them..
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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