Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles pros and cons of 22 Hornet versus 218 Bee

I think we may have gotten off the track here a bit. The guy asked for comments on the Hornet and Bee! Maybe we should give him the information we have in regards to those "two" cartridges. All the others are great, but he did specify Bee and Hornet.

Jerry

Right on, Jerry.

CouchTater,
The Hornet and Bee both suck hugely for use on small game, unless headshooting everything, in which case, most anything will work.

And in which the 223 is KING.....................

Couchtater says he will be handloading. In that case, the Bee is definitely superior. In factory ammo, it suffers because flat nose bullets are required for safe use in lever action Marlins and Winchesters.

I reckon the 223 will outpace it,out agg it,be cheaper to shoot and a touch more flexible.

Them is good things,in my book...................

In the realm of the pipsquek 22 centerfires, ie hornet, bee and fireball, the fireball wins in quality brass, guns, and performance.

That said you simply can't beat the 223 remington, cheapest 22 centerfire brass, when you have to pay for it, cheap milsurp, and if you want 22 hornet performance, just load 14 gr of blue dot under a 40-50 gr bullet of your choice. I've run such loads in a 223, and it is exactly that, hornet equivalent and in a good gun accuracy is all you can want. And don't take my word for it http://www.jamescalhoon.com/tobee2.php

I'm a big Hornet fan. Never owned a Bee, but had a chance to buy one in a No 1 Ruger. But, since I had a Hornet....

But a Hornet is not good with 55 gr. bullets. Too slow. If you're planning on using those, I'd go with a .223.

I've got a 25-20. Nice rifle, but it's not got the accuracy for long range because it's got open sights on it. Kimber made a run of about 100 of them, and one is available for about $1500, but that's too much for my pocket.

Both the Hornet and the 25-20 share a problem; the case is pretty limited. L'il Gun powder and 35 gr. V-Max bullets has made the situation better for the Hornet, but you're still limited in velocity. I don't know about the Bee.

I have a .218 in a Ruger # 1. The more I shoot it the more I like it. I like 40 gr. bullets best but, I did shoot a coyote with a 35 gr. v-max. It was 176 yards, lasered. It dropped in it's tracks and never quivered. And it really worked good on prarie dogs too. I've shot a couple of rockchucks with it, it's not real explosive but it kills them dead. It's really a fun little cartridge. My uncle has a hornet in a cz. We shoot a lot together and although the bee is a little faster I can't really see much difference in the way they shoot and kill.

The Hornet is easier for me to find around here. The K hornet is a fun round too.

I suppose those who can't handle the recoil of a 223 would benefit from the Hornet or the bee. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm just kidding.

The 256 Win Mag is a pretty good cartridge for the purposes that you've cited. 86 grain Remington 25-20 bullets for things that you want to eat and 60 grain Hornadys for things that you just want to kill.

Jeff

CouchTater,

Of the two rounds you mentioned the Bee is the better, If you handload. Hornet stuff is a bit cheaper. The Bee is very slightly hotter. The Bee has enough shoulder to headspace on if you like. The standard Hornet does not but the K version does. RWS brass for the Hornet was/is supposed to be very good but I haven't seen any. Bee cases can be formed from a number of others if needed. Case life at full loads is likely to be better with the Bee. Based on your criteria I would would go with a Bee in a 1-12" barrel.

What kind of action are you considering?

Best regards,

TBP

Well, a T/C Contender carbine seems to make sense. I'd want to have a custom aftermarket barrel made, in order to get the twist rate I want and to make sure the chamber was done properly. Being a southpaw, its futile looking for off the shelf hardware, so if and when I do this it'll be a semi-custom proposition from the get-go. The Contender carbine platform seems like a great idea; buy an accurate .22LR and be able to add a varmint barrel to it.

Nothing wrong with the .223, its just at the wrong end of the varmint power scale. I want power in the .22LR/.22WMR to Hornet range, not the Hornet to .223 Rem range. Not a whole lot of 300 yard varmint shooting around here, or even 200 yard, so the bigger cartridge would be a waste. I've run across .223 loads down to Hornet levels, but I assume the Hornet and Bee cases are better suited to .22 Mag and .22 LR light loads.

Had a custom 218 mashburn bee contender tube cut and results were so/so. I'd figured it should shoot teeny tiny groups, but it was hardpressed to break moa, and I tried about 1/2 dozen bullets and powders. It was one of the most disapointing rounds I've ever worked with. I don't know if it was a die issue or brass issue, but only one or two combos broke 1", and those were 3 shot groups <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'd considered getting custom br dies made, but it just didn't seem worth the effort. I could print 1/2" groups with my 6.5 GR round pusing 120's 2400 fps, so it wasn't a gun or shooter issue.

I'd say go 221 fireball and have the barrel cut to take rimmed brass as well. I like rimmed cases in the contender, and the 360 DW case is a rimmed version of the fireball, blown straight.

I've never understood handloading to 22lr performance levels, lots of labor and more money for the same results.

That's what I'm looking for.



That may be the deciding factor right there. Some percentage of Hornet owners feel the need to go to the K-Hornet configuration, but I've never read about anyone doing a Bee Improved. So maybe as designed the Bee does a better job.

I know even less about the Fireball, I'll have to do some web surfing and read up on it.

As for edibles, I would think a 55 grain FMJ spitzer or cast RN at a velocity under 1600 fps shoudn't be too destructive.

I've owned 2, 218 Bees. Both lever actions. Got bored with open sights and Speer 46 gr. flat nose bullets. Don't get me wrong, they shot great for what they were designed to do.
But....the Hornet in a good bolt or single-shot is great!
Have owned a Savage 340(cheaply built gun) Ruger 77,(barrel went south) and presently have a Hornet in a Ruger #1 with a Loupie 6X18. It's a little heavy for a walking varmiter and would really prefer another Ruger 77. (love the rotary mag)
So...I'd vote HORNET <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Virgil B.

CouchTater,

Well, a steeper shoulder wouldn't hurt the Bee, but really there is not much point. I've had Hornets and Bees and like them both. I think the Bee is a better round but there is a lot more Hornet support. A Ruger 1A would make a nice Bee. Your 1600 FPS load will be fine small game with either bullet.

Best of luck,

TBP

The K-Hornet is an invaluable mind-blowing tool.

We all toss the dainty V-Max at 3400fps+ and she crunches [bleep] nicely.

Which is why the 223,is soooooooooooo sweet..............

CouchTater,

I noticed midway lists factory barrels for the Hornet, KHornet and 221 Fireball. That might be a inexpensive way to test your concept with one of these calibers. If you wanted something else it seems like the used market for those barrels is pretty strong. They all seem to be 1-12" twist which should work for your application

Good luck,

TBP

Couchtater: I load a Lyman 55 grain gas check bullet, in front of a charge of SR4759, vels around 1600 fps, in the Hornet. I learned that even with this load, shooting squirrels here in Arizona, unless you head shoot them, they are ruined.

Jerry

Very true about the destruction of meat with the Hornet.

I have Hornets in Contender handgun and Handi-Rifle. I don't reload for that caliber and went with the Hornet due to availability and price of ammo. If reloading, I might go with the Bee. Once you have the components, the rest is immaterial.

I was hunting coyotes with the Hornet and decided to take a squirrel that was harassing me - and I was hungry for fried squirrel. I hit him in the neck and it still tore the front shoulders up. Even 22 WMR is too much for East Texas squirrels!