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#12085756 - 06/12/17 .416's in Zim  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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I posted this account of my good friend's recent buff hunt in Zim.

He took his Ruger Rigby, scored with one 400 gr. TSX.

This link gives the details, Guess I hijacked the .505 Gibbs thread, so will move it over here.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12085126/2

Interestingt is the PH's .416 comparison with my friend's .416. I asked what the PH used. It's a push feed M-70 in .416 Rem in a Hogue stock with 1.5-5 Leupold. The PH reportedly likes the Rigby, but the Rem is lighter by a few pounds. He had a brake added for recoil, uses solids on everything.

Now, that sorta goes against conventional Fire wisdom on several points: PF vs. CRF, solids on everything, barrel brake, Hogue stock.

My bud said he'd have had a better blood trail with a solid, so I guess he's listening to his PH.

Just wanted to throw that out for discussion.

DF

CMG 300 BP

#12085774 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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jorgeI Offline
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The 416 Remington is the more sensible choice. Smaller, trimmer action and same performance. Initial reports of pressure were exaggerated. The Rem is a great round. As to the PF/CRF issue, I prefer the latter, but have never really worried about it much. Unless in a 700 action with their flimsy extractor prone to failure, non-locking brazed bolt and of course the safety issue as everybody in Africa (or just about carries HOT), especially for dangerous game. After all that, I still toted an RSM in 416 Rigby with 400gr Swift A Frames smile

[Linked Image]


Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, Winston Churchill paid to hunt...
#12085800 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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Jorge,

What are your thoughts on the PH using solids exclusively.

DF

#12085812 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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jorgeI Offline
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PHs are in my view in a different category in they have to be ready for a worst case scenario and that to me spells ELEPHANT and HIPPO on dry land (rhino in the old days I guess). All the PHs I know eschew solids for client use on buffalo but just about all of them carry solids for that eventuality. For cats, they switch to softs.


Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, Winston Churchill paid to hunt...
#12085823 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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I was entertained by the non-PC equipment the PH was using. It all makes perfect sense to me, even down to the Hogue stock and muzzle brake.

I can see how he came to those conclusions, just amused by how some Fire contributors would probably be on his case about two or three of these issues.

I guess him using a brake is more acceptable than a client using one. He may or may not be standing side by side with a client, client will be near PH for sure.

DF

Alpha

#12085832 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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hatari Offline
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I agree with that about the PHs.

Expanding bullets on buffalo are my choice as a client. I've used both enough to be convinced that unless the solid hits the central nervous system, buff and other plains game go down faster with a well placed appropriately made expanding bullet than a solid in the same location. When it comes to stopping a charge, no doubt a solid is the way to go.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
#12086846 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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EdM Offline
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I will be taking a NH M70 416 Rem with a handload using the 350 gr TSX. I goes right at 10# loaded and ready to go.

[Linked Image]


Conduct is the best proof of character.
#12086852 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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I've always liked that rifle.

DF

#12086980 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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gunner500 Offline
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That PH undoubtedly had faith in his rifle, bet he and your buddy had the same faith in the Big Ruger. cool


WTB correct 1-1/4" leather sling for a pre-64 375 H&H, I have the swivels.
#12086987 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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gunner500 Offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I've always liked that rifle.

DF



Dang right, that rifle of Ed's is a nice stick.


WTB correct 1-1/4" leather sling for a pre-64 375 H&H, I have the swivels.
Bravo

#12087169 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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PH reportedly liked the big Ruger, thought it was a bit heavy. Preferred his lighter .416 Rem.

I was surprised to hear the PH had a muzzle brake. Have heard stuff about brakes being a no-no among PH's.

DF

#12087352 - 06/12/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Zengela Offline
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Quite often a PH has to make do to a more or less extant with what is available and what he can afford. The 416 Rem is the no brainer of the 416s when it comes to that decision. Lots use that and the standard 458 because of ammo availability and price. As far as the Hogue, he scored it and it worked out?? And why not on the muzzle break? When he shoots, the blast ain't s$%%& compared to the shot he needs to make. As well as favoring a light rifle. He carries it a hell of a lot more than he uses it.

#12087615 - 06/13/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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My bud said the PH has an assortment of ammo left by clients, uses solids on most everything.

Agree with carrying the .416 a lot more than shooting it, so why not the brake on a lighter rifle...

Reportedly, PH's don't like brakes on client guns. Shots are usually made with the PH near by or side by side.

If the PH is in the bush, tracking down a wounded critter, not so much the case. Although my buddy was right there with him when they found the dead buff.

DF

#12087658 - 06/13/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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jorgeI Offline
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I can tell you PHs (and Guides) HATE muzzle brakes for obvious reasons.


Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, Winston Churchill paid to hunt...
#12088383 - 06/13/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: jorgeI]  
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test1328 Offline
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Originally Posted by jorgeI
I can tell you PHs (and Guides) HATE muzzle brakes for obvious reasons.


+1 on that. Anyone who has hunted much with someone that has a muzzle brake will hate them due to the noise and the resulting damage to eardrums.

The M70 in .416 Rem, even though it is heavier than it needs to be, is still lighter than the Ruger RSM Rigby. I'm sure the PH's rifle with the Hogue stock is even lighter. Makes sense when you have to carry that rifle every day. I also bet he carries the push feed because that is what he could get his hands on, not necessarily what he would choose if he had a choice.

As for solids, I agree that they make sense for the PH, not necessarily for the client, though. I will say that when I was tracking a wounded buff bull that had a messed up leg due to poacher's snares, the PH didn't want him getting into the long grass and wanted to make sure we cut him down right away. At that point, he instructed me to switch to solids, which I did. A quick lung shot stopped him and put him down, so the solid worked just as well as a soft in that situation.

#12091094 - 06/14/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: test1328]  
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Wildcatter264 Offline
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On my first trip to Zim, an elephant hunt, I was separated from my rifle and duffle for the first 2 days. The outfitter lent me his SS Rem M-700 in 416 Rem with a Leupold 3-9x scope on it. I carried it reluctantly until my rifle caught up.

On my next trip, I found out that was his lending gun. He carried an open sighted Win M-70 CRF 458 Lott. This time I had no trouble, my DR 500 NE 3" made it with me all the way to camp. I like 416s, both the Rem and Rigby variants, but prefer 404s. No rational advantage I can see to either, just a matter of personal preference.

BTW, my favorite use of the RSM 416 Rigby is converting it to 450 Rigby Rimless Mag. Did that with one I intend to take to Africa next year as part of my revised 2-rifle battery, although my second RSM remains an unmodified 416 Rigby, a nod to tradition. More rifle lunacy wink grin


Lord, make me fast & accurate... Let my aim be true. Grant me victory over my foes ... Let not my last thought be, If I only had my gun. And Lord, if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. LTC J. Cooper
#12091597 - 06/15/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: test1328]  
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gunner500 Offline
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Originally Posted by test1328
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I can tell you PHs (and Guides) HATE muzzle brakes for obvious reasons.


+1 on that. Anyone who has hunted much with someone that has a muzzle brake will hate them due to the noise and the resulting damage to eardrums.

The M70 in .416 Rem, even though it is heavier than it needs to be, is still lighter than the Ruger RSM Rigby. I'm sure the PH's rifle with the Hogue stock is even lighter. Makes sense when you have to carry that rifle every day. I also bet he carries the push feed because that is what he could get his hands on, not necessarily what he would choose if he had a choice.

As for solids, I agree that they make sense for the PH, not necessarily for the client, though. I will say that when I was tracking a wounded buff bull that had a messed up leg due to poacher's snares, the PH didn't want him getting into the long grass and wanted to make sure we cut him down right away. At that point, he instructed me to switch to solids, which I did. A quick lung shot stopped him and put him down, so the solid worked just as well as a soft in that situation.


Precisely why I will gravitate to the 400 Whelen, 450-400 Nitro and 375 Flanged Magnums when I get too old to shoot the real heavies, will NEVER use a braked rifle to make up for my lack of physical strength at the expense of others hearing.


WTB correct 1-1/4" leather sling for a pre-64 375 H&H, I have the swivels.
#12091780 - 06/15/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Zengela Offline
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Someone,(a client) would have to be a real little bitch to use a break! Oh, the recoil hurts too much! These are the same tough guys that sit around the camp fire in the evening and boast of their accomplishments. Always love the 300 RUM guys at the range. Wussies! I shoot 300 Weatherby no break, on the bench and on the sticks.40 rounds. If someone can't handle the recoil, simply use a round that is tolerable.

#12096729 - 06/17/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Zengela]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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Agree Z.

I have only one rifle with a brake. It's an Ed Brown Damara in .300 Win Mag.

Ed supplied all his light weight magnums with brakes, said they were more accurate.

It's noisy, but is a great shooter and it does shoot better with the brake. The Damara is now discontinued, is such a fine rifle I'd never trade or sell it. It's a keeper, brake notwithstanding.

I wear ear protection and would never take it on a hunt when others would be nearby.

I have too many other fine guns for that.

DF

#12099028 - 06/19/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Dirtfarmer Offline
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Check out Remington 66 posts on this link.

Bud I was refering to: our Zim buff slayer.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12097944

DF

#12099908 - 06/19/17 Re: .416's in Zim [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Wildcatter264 Offline
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Great posts and pics on that link!!

I'm a believer in applying the right rifle and cartridge to a specific situation. So, as much as I like my 500 NE DR and various 458s, the heavy mediums are tailor made for Cape buffalo. I prefer 404s (0.423" diameter bullets), but grudgingly admit that 416s are probably almost wink as good.


Lord, make me fast & accurate... Let my aim be true. Grant me victory over my foes ... Let not my last thought be, If I only had my gun. And Lord, if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. LTC J. Cooper
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