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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Sorry for the ignorance as I am at best an amateur sailor - but in those conditions why should one now really care what odd things the commercial ship did? Our is supposed to be, far and away, the finest navy ever. So, is there any simple and sensible explanation/reason for why our warship could not avoid this bangup?
As an aside, what will be the likely consequences for the Capt. and top crew? It would not be the first time the navy didn't quite think it through....lol https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVUThat's just some horsechit FAKE news,....and has been known as such for a LONG time. "lol ?" no,....just phoucin' STUPID. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
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Sorry for the ignorance as I am at best an amateur sailor - but in those conditions why should one now really care what odd things the commercial ship did? Our is supposed to be, far and away, the finest navy ever. So, is there any simple and sensible explanation/reason for why our warship could not avoid this bangup?
As an aside, what will be the likely consequences for the Capt. and top crew? It would not be the first time the navy didn't quite think it through....lol https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVUThat's just some horsechit FAKE news,....and has been known as such for a LONG time. "lol ?" no,....just phoucin' STUPID. GTC You're right, I didn't research it. Looks like it was making the rounds since 1996. And lol (laugh out loud) it is funny.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948 |
Get me straight on this. The "U" turn made was 25 minutes before the collision?
Looking at the track makes me think something went haywire in the guidance system. If you are below decks and a ship this size turns it is very likely you would not feel it, especially if you are asleep. You would feel the radical course changes such as the plot indicated, if you were paying attention at all. A ship heels significantly in a tight turn. There were people on the MV, whose jobs were to pay attention. Even on auto pilot, there is an at sea watch set. If they didn't feel the turns, they probably felt the change in the ride, even on a large vessel. However, nothing that happened on the MV should have any impact on what happened aboard the Fitz. That ship is capable of going anywhere in the world and protecting itself from any kind of threat, and it's expected to...No excuses! Forget what happened on the MV, the issue is what happened aboard Fitz.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Get me straight on this. The "U" turn made was 25 minutes before the collision?
Looking at the track makes me think something went haywire in the guidance system. If you are below decks and a ship this size turns it is very likely you would not feel it, especially if you are asleep. You would feel the radical course changes such as the plot indicated, if you were paying attention at all. A ship heels significantly in a tight turn. There were people on the MV, whose jobs were to pay attention. Even on auto pilot, there is an at sea watch set. If they didn't feel the turns, they probably felt the change in the ride, even on a large vessel. However, nothing that happened on the MV should have any impact on what happened aboard the Fitz. That ship is capable of going anywhere in the world and protecting itself from any kind of threat, and it's expected to...No excuses! Forget what happened on the MV, the issue is what happened aboard Fitz. While in complete agreement with all you've written there, I'll respectfully state that I'm in agreement with what Jorge wrote days ago, and am not "forgetting" a damned thing about that MV until the entire crew of the thing's had VERY rigorous back round checks run on em'. Everyone from the skipper down to the cabin boy. Something about this whole deal has STUNK from day one,.......and still DOES. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,192
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If the skipper of the Fitzgerald ever wants another sea command, he had better buy his own boat.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948 |
The MV was foreign flagged. It also had a foreign crew. There are standards that govern crew qualifications for ships entering US ports, but this ship was in international waters. The standards are whatever the owner of the ship decides they are. A background check on the crew would likely uncover information the employer wouldn't want to know. So they don't ask.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
So, nobody onboard the freighter got a clue it was doing a 180* turn at cruising speed?
More stink to that story than anything else... The turn came after the collision
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
Get me straight on this. The "U" turn made was 25 minutes before the collision?
Looking at the track makes me think something went haywire in the guidance system. If you are below decks and a ship this size turns it is very likely you would not feel it, especially if you are asleep. The first turn from the normal course was the collision. The U turn was almost 30 minutes later.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Where's the radar report and collision warning bells? Was someone on duty at night?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,167
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,167 |
I think something happened to the Fitz that allowed it to get hit. Just to many things that had to go wrong all at the same time for something like this to happen, unless it was deliberate.
Harry
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,197
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,197 |
I have this app on my iPhone, it is pretty cool, I can see all the ships in the bay, know where they are going, what country they are from, destination, speed and course, it covers the whole world and the article is right, you can't believe the boat traffic in some places. Ir reports in real time. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ship-finder-lite/id324177409?mt=8
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,858
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,858 |
Don't know about ships on the ocean, I've fished on the Great Lakes a bunch. Some of our trips are out on open water and in the shipping lanes. It's common knowledge that the freighters are running on autopilot and there's a good chance the pilot house is unoccupied. Not a big deal, they don't turn or stop on a dime...
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,948 |
All vessels are required to maintain a proper lookout.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,189
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,189 |
The AIS tracking data for the Fitzgerald is something that a lot of people would like to see. Not sure if the Navy has released it (or if they will until the investigation is complete ..... and even then .... who knows??). If you don't know what AIS is, here is some background info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,133
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,133 |
There is an EXCELLENT article in Proceedings, written by a Navy Captain who commanded three cruisers and sailed those seas. Look for the operative words or phrases: "bridge clilmate", CO's standing orders, burden of command, etc. FitzgeraldAnd that is why we all belonged to Naval Institute. A professional opinion well founded in experience.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
There is an EXCELLENT article in Proceedings, written by a Navy Captain who commanded three cruisers and sailed those seas. Look for the operative words or phrases: "bridge clilmate", CO's standing orders, burden of command, etc. FitzgeraldI stood bridge watch on Frigates while deploying as Detachment OIC. The Captain's standing order was to wake him if we came within 10 nm of any surface target. There was no way he was going to forfeit his career over a few hours sleep.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,530
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,530 |
Read what I wrote above or better yet, the link to the article. Several possible causal factors. Thanks - I will.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,111
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,111 |
...what will be the likely consequences for the Capt. and top crew? I'm more of an Army guy, not a sailor. But, seems to me this wasn't a career builder... Put another way, the Navy puts you in charge of a billion dollar piece of equipment with crew. On your watch, said billion dollar asset gets T-boned by a huge freighter in open sea, killing 7 of your assigned, major damage to your assigned asset. Even Army thinking would conclude that was pretty bad... Board of Inquiry should be interesting. DF
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,279
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,279 |
What gets me is that on that date the moon was 56% illumination that night. They said it was clear. Rise was at 2330 on the 16th and set was 1114 on the 17th. How can your watches not see something the size of a container ship under those conditions?
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 14,211 |
Male sailor and female sailorette were on watch. The two began screwing there on the bridge, ten minutes later got T-boned.
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