Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game "The 30-06 is obsolete!"

Pertinent comments about QL from our own John B. yesterday on another thread.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...do-you-like-in-your-257-roy#Post12107816

I can shoot my .45-79 that far, too, and in the Sandy Hook trials the .45-70 put a bullet through an oak board at over a mile.

The 200 yard advantage I was talking about was in terms of retained velocity and energy.

Retained energy and velocity equal???

Location, location, location as Realtors always say...

Very Good - Thnx ST

Jerry

Pretty much blows ol' Bob's pseudo science out of the water, which didn't pass the smell test, anyway...

At exactly what distance can we see this 200 yard advantage?

I posted the specific factory loads earlier, since that is what most people use, but here are a couple again:

Winchester X3086 180g Power Point .308 Win = 2620fps, 300 yards = 1971fps/1553fpewith a 9.7" drop at 300 yards
Winchester X30064 180g Power Point .30-06 = 2700fps, 300 yards = 2038fps/1659fpe with a 9.0” drop at 300 yards
Winchester S3006LR 190g EBG-LR 30-06 = 2750fps, 300 yards = 2339fps/2309fpe with a 7.5" drop at 300 yards
The 30-06 S3006LR does at 300 yards what the .308 Win does at about 95 yards - for a 30-06 advantage of 205 yards.
Winchester doesn't offer a more comparable .308 Win load that I could find.

Federal P308TT4, 180g Trophy Bonded Tip .308 Win = 2620fps/3039fpe, 300 yards = 2290fps/1922fpe
Federal P3006TT4, 180g Trophy Bonded Tip .30-06 = 2880fps/3315fpe, 300 yards = 2346fps/2199fpe
The .30-06 load does at 300 yards what the .308 Win does at about 215 yards - for a .30-06 advantage of about 85 yards.
Federal doesn't offer a more comparable .308 Win load that I could find.



Before someone jumps on my case about it, I'm not suggesting that a .308 Win is not capable of doing what needs done at 300 yards, that isn't my point. If it was I wouldn't own two and I would not have recommended a .308 win to Daughter #1 for her elk rifle, Nor would have stated many times that most of the game I've taken since 1982 could have been taken equally well with a 308 Win. The point is that a .30-06 can deliver significantly more velocity and energy down range than can the 308 Win, especially as higher bullet weights are encountered. That at SAAMI compliant pressures.

In a "Modern" .30-06, which is where this conversation started, and where the only change would be a change to a 62,000 PSI limit to match the .308 Win, the additional 19-23% case capacity of the .30-06 would give it an even larger advantage. Bump it up to .270 Win pressures (65,000 PSI), wowza.

My take on the 30-06 vs .308 - shoot whichever you have. If you don't have either, then decide - if you hunt deer or target shoot more go 308 or if you hunt elk and bigger game more then get the 30-06. Get within 1/4 mile and fill the freezer.

A .308 is a .30-06 100 yards closer. That's about it....

Or 200, depending on the bullet weight.

Or 172.... Now you are talking MV and BC's which most folks on here think is silly since BC's only matter on unethical shots by unethical people. Careful not to get lumped in there...

Aren't you pretty high & might😝

So you're basing the .30-06 200 yard advantage on the 190 grain bullet which is getting a little heavy for the short .308 case? Nobody seems to much use bullets heavier than 180 in either so that seems kind of irrelevant to me.

I think that is spot on.

190, 200, 210, 220 but I also provided data at the other end of the spectrum - 110g - where the .30-06 spanks the .308 Win.

In any case, my point has been the .30-06 provides capability that the .308 Win cannot match. Whether everyone - or even anyone - takes advantage of that extra capability is what is not relevant. The extra apability still exists.

If I were to go to Alaska to hunt browns with one of my .30 caliber rifles, the best choice would be the one that is most "efficient". That means my .300 Blackout.

Everyone I have seen using .30 cal in my lifetime was running between 125-180 grains (except me, I use 220's while Moose hunting) so that's where I base the practical usefulness of these cartridges to lie. With bullets of those weights I see the .30-06 offering a 100 yard advantage.

I have two .308s and recently inherited a Savage 30-06. I have gobs of 150 Interlocks and decided that was the bullet that I would start testing in the 06. It shoots them into less than 1/2 moa at 300 yards, right at 3000 fps mz velocity. My .308s shoot the same bullet at 2934 fps, so there is not a tremendous difference in the two different loads. The 06 will shine a bit more with heavy bullets, but for the average hunter (closer than 300 yards) I cannot see enough difference to argue about. You can look at ballistics etc., all day long, but real field difference is minimal unless you are going to shoot real heavy bullets.

That being said, there SHOULD be an edge for the 06. It is a longer round and uses more powder. I am not sure that is really too much of a plus and if I was going to go buy a .30 cal, it would be hard for me to buy a long-action 06, when the .308 will do a fine job in a sleeker package, with less powder burned. Unless you are a hair-splitter, the accuracy is comparable. There is no bad choice here, but since I don't shoot heavy bullets, I would prefer the .308 for most things.

For my elk hunting, I have always picked up the 7 mag, anyway, and I don't shoot targets past 530 yards, as that is how long my shooting range is. .

I have two .308s and recently inherited a Savage 30-06. I have gobs of 150 Interlocks and decided that was the bullet that I would start testing in the 06. It shoots them into less than 1/2 moa at 300 yards, right at 3000 fps mz velocity. My .308s shoot the same bullet at 2934 fps, so there is not a tremendous difference in the two different loads. The 06 will shine a bit more with heavy bullets, but for the average hunter (closer than 300 yards) I cannot see enough difference to argue about. You can look at ballistics etc., all day long, but real field difference is minimal unless you are going to shoot real heavy bullets.

That being said, there SHOULD be an edge for the 06. It is a longer round and uses more powder. I am not sure that is really too much of a plus and if I was going to go buy a .30 cal, it would be hard for me to buy a long-action 06, when the .308 will do a fine job in a sleeker package, with less powder burned. Unless you are a hair-splitter, the accuracy is comparable. There is no bad choice here, but since I don't shoot heavy bullets, I would prefer the .308 for most things.

For my elk hunting, I have always picked up the 7 mag, anyway, and I don't shoot targets past 530 yards, as that is how long my shooting range is. .

Hodgdon lists pressure tested data for the .30-06 where it can push 150g BTs to 3068fps with H4350 and 3072fps with Superformance powders while staying well under .30-06 max pressures. 24" barrels for both. That's a 100fps more than the max listed for the .308 Win. Agreed,that is not a tremendous difference for the average hunter.

I load them to 2975fps in my .30-06 rifles (all 22") with H4350 with a load 2.0g under Hodgdon's max of 62.0g compressed, 3068fps. The Hodgdon load is 48,400 CUP, well under SAAMI 50,000 CUP max.

For the .308's we use Varget, again with a lighter load than Hodgdon max, 46.0g instead of 47.0g compressed. In Daughter #1's 22" Ruger that yields 2765fps instead of Hodgdon's 2937fps at 24". In my Ruger Scout, the 16.1" barrel provides 2699fps with 46.0g Varget. What surprises me is the extra 6" on the .22" rifle provides only an additional 66fps total or 11fps/inch.

Also agreed there is no bad choice between the two and that the .30-06 advantage increases with bullet weight. If I had to choose just one the .30-06 would win easily because I hunt elk every year. If I was in a different part of the country the .308 Win would probably be the easy winner.

[Edited to add...]

Not only would the .308 Win be an easy winner for me in different circumstances, it is what I recommended for Daughter #1, who, while an adult, is still rather petite and recoil sensitive. For her I load the following:
130g Barnes TTSX to 3045fps
150g Nosler BT to 2785fps
165g North Fork SS to 2744fps

Those loads yield the following, MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target"

130g TTSX = 294yd MPBR, 2302fps/1529fpe @ 300yd
150g BT = 277yd MPBR, 2210fps/1627fpe @ 300yd
165g SS = 271ys MPBR, 2153fps/1698fpe @ 300yd

She used the TTSX last year to take her antelope at 368 yards. With a little luck she will get a shot at elk this year.