Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Searching for rifle scope truth

I have been using rifle scopes to hunt and shoot for over 20 years now. I only own variable powered scopes and I own scopes from the fallowing three manufacturers
Leupold, Bushnell, and Weaver. I want to make it clear the purpose of this post is not for scope recommendations but simply trying to find out the truth in what scopes that can be adjusted as needed for wind and elevation the returned to their previous zero being made presently are of at least equal quality of the ones I already own that don't cost an ridiculous amount of money well out of my range of affordability.

Leupolds I own:
2-VariX-II's in 3-9x40mm
2-VariX-II's in 4-12x40mm
2-VariX-II's shotgun scopes in 2-7x32mm

Bushnell scopes I own:
1-4200 Elite in 4-12x40mm
1-4200 Elite in 3-9x40mm
2-3200 Elites in 3-9x40mm

Weaver Scopes I own
1-2-10x40mm Grand Slam
1-4.5-14x40mm W/AO Grand slam.

The Bushnell Elites are my newest scopes that I purchased at great prices on close out some 5-6 years ago, all others I have owned for between 10-25 years.

Except for the 2-10x40 Weaver GS, one Bushnell 3200 and one VariX-II 4-12 I have all these scopes mounted atop all hard if not very hard recoiling rifles. At least one scope from each seperate manufacturer has been subjected to having shot over 500 heavy recoiling cartridges like .338wm, 300wm, 7mmstw, .50 cal smokeless ML, some in the case of my smokeless ML and 12 ga slug guns and turkey guns in excess of 1000 rounds of quite hard recoiling ammunition.

I absolutely hate to say this for fear of inviting fate to come along and ruin my perfect track record, but I have yet to have a scope issue of any kind. Granted I fully realize these are by todays standards low tech rifle scopes with only basic duplex reticles and their adjustments are of the "set it and forget it type, and are rather limited to their maximum viable range because of the set and forget design.

Now for the point of my post. I wish to begin the process of becoming a capable enough shot to shoot at targets and eventually big game such as deer and elk out to 600 yards which obviously requires a more advanced scope design than I presently own. I have been spending countless hours researching which scope to buy and quite frankly the more I research the more bewildered and disillusioned I am becoming. I'm trying to find a scope with the fallowing criteria to sit atop a 300 wsm using 180 grain bullets for a do all single load from antelope to elk.
>Not to long and reasonably light weight
>40mm objective max
>Second Focal plane
>Has AO
>At or under 15x prefer 12x
>Some type of BDC reticle
>Reticle similar to a traditional cross hair and as uncluttered as possible
>Adjustable for elevation and wind and have dead reliable repeatability
>Can not exceed $750
>Be either made and or assembled in the USA, Japan or Europe.

Now for my quandary. Every time I find a scope that comes close enough to match my criteria I find multiple posts claiming 1st hand experience denouncing the scope as unreliable in one way or another. I've found alarming number of negative posts concerning the reliability of some of the best known and highly regarded scopes presently being made.

What bothers me most of all is based on dozens and dozens of posts I have read virtually all of scopes in my price range are made from parts sourced from all over the world, which if they come from places famous for making world class quality components, I have no issue and understand the why. But more and more I have been reading posts by people claiming increasingly even the most well known scope makers are using parts critical to a scopes reliability that are of a lesser quality then previously used, including parts made in China in their less expensive scopes especially ones under $1000.

Now I know better than to treat ALL internet information as if it came from the burning bush, but some of these sources are from some well respected and knowledgeable people on the subject of rifle scopes.

So what exactly is a less than optics expert such as I to believe as the truth? If I am to believe the general consensus on tactical type hunting scopes you have to spend WAY WAY over $1000 to get a scope that is reliable and whos adjustments will be accurate and not wear out. Remember I'm not talking about set and forget scopes but scopes designed for and meant to be adjusted for bullet drop and drift, and return to a preset zero.

I have read utter horror stories about two different of the most famous scope makes producing scopes in the $1000 range that were made using poor quality parts sourced form sub contractors and these scopes and their owners suffered accordingly. And I'm not talking a few trolls spewing crap, these were long detailed recounts of scope failures.

So based on all the negative reports of well known premier makes of scopes am I supposed to believe that my scopes all of which cost $350 or less are better made and with better quality components and are more reliable than scopes in the $1000+ range? because that's what conclusion I feel is not unreasonable to arrive at. Although not all of my scope have seen equally hard use, I am confident enough from each manufacturer has seen more than adequate harsh use to give a good indication of their quality and dependability, Ill grant you a set it and forget it scope type like I own is an easier and there fore cheaper design to make very robust VS ones meant to be frequently adjusted, but should that matter?

So what is the truth about scopes the average working hunter can afford that meet my criteria?

Thanks,
DYJager.

Lastly although this is my first post under this UN I was a member prior and have been a constant visitor for years. I had computer issues about 18 months ago and lost all data on the computer. Now I back up everything. Yep lesson learned.

We are living in a global economy. Most scopes have parts sourced from all over. If you want max reliability you are going to spend some $$$ and be on the heavy side. Look to SWFA SS for the least expensive. For dependability I would place the SWFA SS, Nightforce, US Optics, or Schmidt and Bender at close to the top.

Another thing to consider is that most scopes in the $700 range will be just as reliable as what you own. It's just that any scope can fail and if you look for it on the web you will find it. You don't hear of the thousands that are working perfectly.


A good dialing scope that comes close to your requirement is the Nightforce NXS 2.5-10X42 but it is more than twice your budget. I would save a bit more and buy one if I wanted the ultimate hunting scope that would accurately dial windage and elevation.

I have a Leupold VX 3 4.5-14x40 with a Boone and Crockett reticle on my 7mm mag. I use it out to 600 yds. Works very well.
You should be able to pick something up with A/O for around $500.

I also have a Burris Veracity in 3-15x50 that is FFP. I like that one as well.

I have also just started to learn to shoot longer distances while dialing. I've started on a leupold vx-3I 4.5x14 sf. So far it has been very good. Returns to zero or close to always isn't perfectly moa but I'm not trying to shoot competively so for hunting and ringing gong's it has worked real good. I also have picked up a 6x swfa I plan to try as soon as they lift the fire bans so i can shoot outdoors. It's a little heavier and not quite as clear as the leupold but definitely good enough to hunt with in low legal shooting light. Good luck on your search. Let me know your results as I am very interested in this topic.

Oh forgot to mention but tract toric meets almost all your needs. It will be my next scope. It has be getting raving reviews.

Oh forgot to mention but tract toric meets almost all your needs. It will be my next scope. It has be getting raving reviews.

Strangely enough I am strongly considering the same scope. Clark, I considered Nightforce SHV but again it's over budget, I would go with SWFA 3-15x42 first but I only like their FFP reticles and I STONGLY prefer SFP scopes. Now SWFA's FFP reticle might serve me just fine, but I have no way to check one out 1st hand prior to purchase, and despite multiple 1st hand evaluations sent to me along with pictures I am very hesitant to spend that level of $$$ without being absolutely confident I will like the way a FFP reticle performs at all ranges and lighting situations.

DTJager,

If you are more interested in playing with a scope that is good enough than impress others with how much you spend, you can get a Tasco Trajectory model. I used a 4-16X40 for awhile until two time when I saw a deer but could not make out if the antlers were legal or not. During the day it was fine. I dialed it to make my longest kill on a rockchuck at 527 yards. It always returned to zero.

When I switched to more expensive stuff I gave it to my son-in-law. He put it on a Savage 7 Rem Mag. There is a 2 pound propane bottle at 598 yards from the benches. He used to dial it up and shoot the bottle, then dial it back and put one in the "X" on the 100 yard target and asked if anyone wanted to have a shooting contest at different ranges.

I bet you could get one for less than a $100.

Just call SWFA and ask if they have a restocking fee if you don't like the scope and want to send it back. Even if they do,you can likely check one out for a $10-$15 restocking fee, and it would cost that much gas money to drive store to store looking at other scopes anyway. I had their 3X9 SS HD FFP and the reticle was fine for me. I only got rid of it because the rifle I bought it for hit the turrets when ejecting. A lot of scopes will dial accurately for limited use,but the SWFA SS is about the cheapest scope I would trust to keep on dialing accurately under heavy use.

FYI.... SWFA always has a great Black Friday sale if you can wait that long,some are $200 less.

DT,

Very well written post and while looking for a scope that suits your needs, you brought up big points that are generally swept under the rug....thats another thread though...


Looking at your criteria, we may have something that is 99% there. If you can except a 42mm bell and a side parallax adjustment over an AO, I think we are there. Take a look at our:

TRACT Toric 3-15x42 BDC


This scope features:

4" Constant eye relief (even though the 300WSM isn't a HUGE thumper, in the heat of a hunt scope kiss does happen... )
BDC reticle that can be ballistically matched to your load for drop
Made at LOW in Japan
Side Focus for Parallax
Both capped turrets in addition to a high profile turret that you can swap out with zero stop
3-15x magnification
Glass etched reticle
and Schott HT glass....premium glass that is typically not seen at retail until that 1200is price tag


This guy will run you about $688 after the forum discount

Feel free to shoot me over any and all questions you may have!

Appreciate the shoutout Azelk! Always feel free to send a PM my way if you need anything!

Vortex makes some good stuff too, good warranty and lots of features per dollar

This will do what you want. https://swfa.com/leupold-3-9x40-vx-2-riflescope-5.html

You can buy more magnification if you want, but I have this scope on a couple of rifles and have shot them out to 600 with a 300 WSM.

I don't care for dials on a hunting rifle. They can be more precise, but are slower and unless you spend serious money on a high end scope aren't as reliable.

I also have a couple of the now discontinued Zeiss Conquest's with the BDC reticle that I like a little better. That scope was actually made by Meopta. They no longer make that exact model, but do make some similar.

Just buy a 3-10x42 Nightforce SHV and be done with it.

Failing that, every Conquest I've had (4 models) was noticeable better mechanically than most Leupold's I've owned.

But that said, you want to dial, pony up for a real dialing scope. You won't regret it. In fact you'll likely never go back.

+1

There are certainly plenty of good scopes out there that can get you to 600 yards on game accuracy. I've been using the Zeiss Z600 and Z800 reticles for deer and elk hunting on my 7mm Rem and 300 Weatherby and can attest to their accuracy on steel and elk. The HD5 3-15 HD5 was so nice on my cousin's rifle I ran out and bought one and am very happy. Eurooptic has them on sale now the 3-15 Z600 model at $749 it is close to your budget. I think that would be a nice fit for a 300WSM. I've had good experiences with the Conquest line, Burris, Leupold, and Sightron over the years but the HD5 fits my eye and gives me the confidence to make longer shots on game. That 300 WSM is tough to beat for an open country elk and deer rifle in my opinion.

I think a VX2 with CDS or reticle and practice gets you there for the least money but if you plan on dialing frequently the SS 3-15 would make more sense. I'd spring for a used Nightforce if I was dedicating a rifle for long distance. Personally I think dialing is a target scope exercise not a hunting tool for me. But I've put a few hundred rounds down range with my rifle and scope combo and feel good with the reticle method. I'm good to 500 yards with a duplex on rifles that I'm familiar with on elk and deer sized targets. That extra 100 yards is a little beyond my hold over confidence level.

That's a good list and unfortunately, 99.9% of scopes out there won't make the grade, but there are a few that I would consider.

S&B
Nightforce
SWFA

I don't know why folks think they need 15x to dial and shoot targets and Big Game at 600 yards, or why a variable is needed, but the SWFA 3-9 is an excellent hunting scope and guys running it like it.

I'd put a 6x SWFA Mil-Quad on the rifle and start getting range time. 10x is another option but for 600 yards 6x is fine.

Learning about LR on a 300 WSM isn't a great situation, a 223 would be better, but that $300 scope is plenty capable, rugged and reliable, and if it's not for you there is a line out the door of guys who would buy it.

I am Very Pleased with my $300 Athlon Optics Talos BTR scope. Great optics, 30mm tube, illum reticle, matched turrets, side-focus parallax. Have to spend lots more, like 2x the $$ to get as good a Leupold or Burris scope. Athlon is new. Their scopes are all made or assembled in China, except their $1800 Cronus line which is 100% made in japan by Liight Optcal Works, or their newest Ares series which is LOW lens systems and internals japanese made, assembled in China for about $800-$850.... These rank with the S&B pm, Nightforce, Kahles, Better Leupold, and Zeiss.

<www.athlonoptics.com> download catalog at bottom of homepage. Tons of data and specs. Lifetime Transferable Warranty w/o hassles or proof of purchase requirments; all service done in Kansas.

There are a number Talos scopes that are not FFP or tactical designs, some are illuminated. Definitely worth comparing to Athlon before you buy.

A question for the original poster - how do you compare the Leupold 3-9x40 vs the 4-12x40? A long time ago, I bought an M70 25-06. I wanted to put a 4-12 on it, but the dealer didn't have it in stock and it was more $$$, but I have always wondered if I would have preferred the 4-12. I am planning to upgrade a couple 3-9's now. Will probably go 3.5-10 (VX-3), haven't been real impressed with the 4.5-14's I've looked at, but I have never looked through the 4-12.

One more thing...


If you want "Scope Truth"... Up to YOU to do your own tests and validations.

If sight picture is critical, study up on camera lens systems and how they're tested. Clarity, Contrast, Color Accuracy, all contribute to Image Rendition. Your own vision quality is really the key component here. Testing with charts and color blocks are fine for lenses, but scopesights are more dynamic. Do some real world testing at various distances.

You will Need some baseline tools. A Boresighter with collimation grid (not to test lens alignment), but to allow testing of reticle position and movement enables a great many possibilities. Scopes are complex mechanisms and they break. I've had a broken reticle before, but most failures are very difficult to evaluate much less prove without a boresighter with grid.

Until you prove to yourself that your scope works as it should and has no distortion or other defects, you don't Know your scope actually is 100% in working condition. Without tools to test, you won't Know what might be wrong.

One universal truth about scopes is that they do break or have performance issues. Unless you have an unconditional and transferable warranty from the manufacturer (if bought used), you may be out a lot of money for repairs at some time, if you are even able to get the scope fixed. This is when you learn the Real Truth as to whether your scope was a deal or not.