Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game "The 30-06 is obsolete!"

Your post contains two errors:
1) you ignore efficiency - case capacity is not the only feature of a case
2) .308 has a higher specified pressure than .30-06. They are not loaded to the same pressure.

And an omission: .30-06 is essentially never loaded with top loads, and as a result the loads can be EXACTLY duplicated with a .308. Same bullet, same velocity.

1) Efficiency: If you REALLY think that 2.5 degrees of shoulder angle and 13 thousands of an inch in shoulder makes a material difference, you're beyond help.
2) they CAN be loaded to the same pressure.
3). see # 2.

You seem to not be able to understand the definition of equivalent. And you don't seem to grasp the difference between the the trivial and the significant.

It's been real.

The point here is that you admit to hot-rodding the cartridge of your choice to make it look better than the other cartridge. That's the kind of thing children, liars and cheats do, not adults wishing to have an honest, rational discussion.

You claim a .260 with a 160g Weldcore (B.C. .509, S.D. 328) at 2750fps is equal to a .300H&H. Really? Hodgdon lists a 212g ELD (B.C. .673, S.D. .319) at 2750fps. That is a "huge" advantage in B.C. and a very minor disadvantage in S.D for the .300 H&H.

Here's how your "hot-rodded" .260 load and a book .300H&H load compare:


Granted that bullet velocity, drops and drift are about the same (the advantage goes to the .300H&H), the ,300H&H carries far more energy to the target than the .260 can dream of. In fact, the muzzle energy of the .260 is equal to the .300 H&H at about 415 yards.

At 400 yards, your self-imposed limit for most "ethical shots", the .300 H&H book load delivers 59% more energy than your "hot-rodded" .260 load.

First you claimed a .308 is the equal of a .30-06, but both factory and book loads show that is not the case. You claim QuickLOAD is infallible but even QuickLOAD fails to support your claim. Now you claim a "hot-rodded" .260 Rem is equal to the .300H&H but the first book load I looked at shows the .260 falls far short.

If someone knocks on your door, I suggest you run - it might be the mem in white coats.

All of the above not-with-standing.... GFY -

'06 works for me.

I provided information on factory loads that you still have not been able to duplicate with .308 loads. Until you do, everything you say about the .308 equaling the .30-06 is just so much bullschit.

The first loads I built for my ..300WM were not top loads. In fact, they were designed to match .308 Win loads. Does that mean a .308 Win equals the .300WM in capability?

No.

This will go down in history as on par with the Halford-Skues debates....

Only if Jeff O gets in on it

Been killing my elk every year for 45 years and will continue to kill elk until I am in the ground. Then maybe my grand children will use the 30-06 to kill elk.

Nah, it'll be obsolete by then.

Actually they're easy to duplicate, and now that you have quickload you can prove it to youself. You're just butthurt because you've got emotional investment in the .30-06 and don't want to admit it's an also-ran as far as cartridges go

Llama, do you feel the 7-08 and .280 also provide duplicate performance with like bullets, barrel lengths, etc?

Never a question I've looked into much, but taking a quick look I'd say yes. For example, Federal's 150 partition load is the exact same speed I load that bullet in 7mm-08 (24"), and that's with a single base powder. If I wanted to use RL-17 I could beat it handily (and within SAAMI).

A quick survey says that Remington and Winchester's ammo isn't any ballsier than Federal's.

Now it's the same situation - 7mm-08 matches what everyone shoots as .280. That doesn't mean that it matches the hottest SAAMI .280 load. I personally don't think this is a very hard concept to grasp, but there's one person on this thread I'm betting will have trouble with it.

For what it's worth, I really like the .280 AI as a long action option now that there's commercial brass. HOT max pressure, steep shoulder, decent case capacity. Basically a modern design beltless magnum, but with a standard bolt face.

Where does the increased case capacity of .30-06-based cartridges get lost in performance then compared to the smaller .308-based cartridges?

Thanks...

Max pressure, shoulder geometry, and poor powder choice.

What happens when both cases are at maximum pressure with an optimized powder choice for each with all else being equal?

About a 150 ft/s advantage for the .280 depending on your exact bullet choice and what powders you consider available.

Lol!!

Two Questions:

1) What happens when both cases (308 and 30/06) are at maximum pressure with an optimized powder choice for each with all else being equal?

2) Do you have any data that show the 2.5 degree difference in shoulder angle and the 13 thousands difference in shoulder diameter result in a difference in performance?

QuickLOAD can't duplicate them and according to you it is gospel.