Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 30/40 Krag

Any advice on loading for one of these? I need to lay in some components.




Dave

You getting bored out there?

I always liked the lunch box mag but the sporterized stuff has become too pricey.

So I gots a regular coming my way.



Dave

Not a particularly strong action, so reload conservatively.

I have a custom 1898 Krag that was reworked by Wilbur Hauck and load the 165 grain Hornady SpirePoint over 40 grains of H4895 at about 2,400 fps.

45-46grs of IMR4350 with 180's and 43-44 with 200's.


I'm shooting these in a 113 year old 1895

I know I have some lighter weight round nose bullets, I can look and see if I have any heavies.

I'm hoping to load some 220gr. RN stuff around 1,900fps.

Does anybody know of a commercial caster that makes something that would work with these?




Dave

Thank me later.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...20-grain-ballistic-tip-rn-blem-50ct.html

I've been loading the Lyman 311299 bullet over Reloader 7 lately. I don't remember the powder charge but it was just shy of the middle. I buy from a local caster but similar bullets from Red Rock Bullets also shot decently. My 1896 shoots them as well as I can hold but the 1894 doesn't like them. I suspect it is the original barrel that is the problem.

I finally found some old Remington 220 gr bullets, I hope to work up a load for the 1894 that shoots OK. I hope to get around 1800 fps to lessen stress on the rifle. Other than the sights and filled ramrod channel it appears to be all original.

I've got an old box of Hornady 170 gr. Pointed Flat Nose. Sorry, no heavies.

I have been pleased with stuff from these folks.

http://westernbullet.com/30caliber.html

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product-category/rifle/?filter_caliber=308

These guys top out at 210gr, but they're hand ladle-cast and they list the mold they use.

Not my thing, but 5744 is the powder of choice, I believe. If you know Duke Venturino, he's the guy you want to talk to.

I've got one.. an 1898 Cavalry Carbine... sporterized in the 50s....

My load is 30 grains of 4198... with a 180 grain RN, or occasionally a 170 grain FN....

I treat the case like a big brother to the 30/30....

off season, I shoot 168 grain MatchKings in it, with the 30 grains of 4198 load...

Mine's pretty darn accurate consider the age of the rifle... and barrel...

I love the Nostalgic feeling I get when I shoot or hunt with it...

I have a cut-down that looks like a NRA carbine. Best load is a 180 gr Hornady spire point (flat base or boat tail) over 46 gr of either 4350. Velocity matches WW 180 gr factory ammo.

Oh wow. Never even heard of them. Thanks.




Dave

Those could work!




Dave

Are those prices including lube and gas checks or is that something you have to do yourself?



Dave

[quote=deflave][quote=10at6]Thank me later.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...20-grain-ballistic-tip-rn-blem-50ct.html[Look t /quote]

Oh wow. Never even heard of them. Thanks.




Dave[/quoteLook at the bearing surface on those suckers

I wouldn't be quick to jump there.

Sized and lubed.

http://westernbullet.com/rc3gr1.html

Your box is full again, did you ever get a Shockwave? Thoughts?

I loaded the two I had with the Hornady 220 gr. RNSP and 40.0 grains of IMR 4350. Seemed to duplicate the military load and shot to POA with the original sights. If you just bought the rifle, it's a good idea to carefully inspect the locking lug on the bolt for cracks before using it.

Negative. Will be looking this weekend. On the road.




Clark

Thanks.

It has already been gone over by somebody that knows more about them than I.




Dave

Thanks, Ed.




Dave

I've used your particular load for a few years myself. It worked pretty well on a few white tails over the years.

Have loaded the Krag for twenty years. Most have about as long a throat as a WBY freebore. Best loads were usually with 150 grain BTs or Spire points.Varget. Mild accurate and 2700 fps.Then...the last batch of loads were with 190 grain LR Accubonds. H4831 no chrono data but five into a forty caliber hole at 100 yards (from a 22 inch Contender re chambered from a 30/30). Nosler says LRs expand down to 1300 FPS at a mild 2000 FPS MV... should be great. Just about the neatest cartridge case to work with. No surprises, just mild accurate results. In spite of a long throat try seating a 150 Hornady to the crimp groove, they just do not seem to care if they jump an inch into the rifling. So many bullets work in the cartridge, just try what you have on hand. Sierra customer service gave me the Varget data. Pulled 147 fmjs over Unique for 1300 fps are one holers at 50 yards for small game.

If you're loading for a Krag, I wouldn't go over 40gr. 4350/220 grain jacketed bullet. That load will give you original gov't load performance. (2000fps out of a 30" rifle barrel, probably 1850fps or so out of a 22" barrel. Doesn't sound like much but remember, that load was considered big medicine for any and all 4-legged animals in North America 100 years ago.)

When the Army cried for more oomph, Frankford Arsenal upped performance from 2000fps/220 bullet to 2200fps/220 bullet. Immediately they started getting complaints from the field that locking lugs were cracking. (Remember there's only one.) They went back to the original load and recalled all of the "new improved" ammo and all was good again. Going higher than 40 grains 4350 will put you into the same scenario. This from the Krag addicts/gurus on the Krag Collectors forum, and I believe them. It's really advisable to limit pressures in a Krag to 40K psi or less. I can't speak to M95 Winchesters and other .30-40 rifles.

In mine I load 6gr. Bullseye/155 grain plain base cast bullet for plinking. 18 grains SR-4759/180 cast for general target shooting. 40 grains 4350/210 grain cast bullet for hunting, which was my hunting load back in the 80's and it poleaxed eastern whitetails. It'll be my hunting load again this year with my recently built Krag sporter. The lead bullets don't have to be hard as sin at 2000 fps, especially if you will hunt with them. Hard cast bullets behave almost like FMJ's. Hardness of 11-13 bhn is A-ok for accuracy with no leading + reliable expansion at Krag and .30-30 velocity levels.

Sizing cast bullets for a Krag can be tricky too. Chamber, throat, and bore dimensions are all over the map in original barrels. It's advised to measure the throat and size bullets to fit it regardless of groove diameter. It's not uncommon (in fact just the opposite) to find Krags with throats as big as .314 and grooves running to .312. A good compromise is to size to .310-.311 which ought to cover most examples, if you can't measure the throat. I wouldn't even bother trying .308-.309 cast bullets- I'm so jaded about Krag bullet requirements, based on first hand experience with more Krags in my life than enough.

Excellent fun to shoot cartridge, Krags only have one locking lug so be careful.

Thanks to everybody for your help. Components are on order. I'm going to try the Nosler BT's and Hornady RN. Both 220 type.

Gun is in hand. Can't wait to give it a go. Will definitely use this on deer this year. It's just too cool.

I've not shot my Krag in years. The pics make me want to drag mine out of the back of the safe and run a few through it.

Looking through my notes, I've tried 220 Sierra RN's with 43.5grn IMR-4831. I can't find where I wrote down any numbers off the chronograph for that load, so work up. I am fairly positive it was right at 2000fps and around an inch for 3 at 50 yards (that was the furthest range I had that day, and between the issue sights, staring into the sun, and the sewer pipe bore on my rifle, I was happy).

I've also ran 165 Speer Hot Cors with with 40.0 grn. of IMR-3031. Same deal accuracy wise at 2330 fps (I did write down my chrony numbers on that one).

I've wanted to cast for mine, but the above mentioned sewer pipe bore has always kept me from making the investment. I THINK it was a Lyman 311284 that was designed for the Krag. LOTS of good cast bullet and load stuff over Cast Boolits.com.

I need to try to kill something this fall with that rifle.......

Yeah, the Hudson-designed 311284 was intended specifically for the Krag. Works in about any .30 too. (An old acquaintance used it and a caseful of surplus 4831 in his .30-30 as his black bear whacker.)

That is a dandy Model 1896, Travis. They simply don't come much nicer.

Thanks Gnoah.

I'm happy with it.




Travis

Yup, pretty nice. Didn't think you swung that way. You're gonna have to buy a wider truck.

What's next, Mausers?

I could use a 98 actually...

Started when I bought my dad a Garand. Something about those old military rifles I just like.




Dave

Very nice Rifle!!!! Very nice!!!!

Well done!

Thanks K-dub!

Can't wait to shoot it.




Travis

Travis that's about the slickest action you'll ever run. You should really enjoy that side gate and the feel of the Krag in your hands. I like em myself. Best of luck.

This thing is percolating...

220gr. RN are doing OK.

Pics by Monday.



Travis

Those new Nosler 220 grain "Ballistic Tips" Round nose bullets designed for the
300 Blackout, ought to be something to give a try in a 30/40 Krag....

If you don't get around to it Trav, I'll have to dust off my Krag and give them a whirl.

Then designed for opening up at low speed, ought to work in a Krag real well.

Yeah. They look pretty slick. Hopefully they have the same POI as the Hornady's.

Trav,

curiosity... why are you picking the 220 RN over the 180 RN?

I know where there's a dandy matched-number Swede at a good price. Better take a nap and try to forget about it.

I'm hoping it makes my dick bigger.




Dave

Nice gun, where'd you find it?

Shrapnel's house.

If he asks about me, tell him I'm dead. Again.



Thanks,
Travis

That's kinda what I was thinking, but I didn't want to just Assume...

Just FYI, in case you need it...if the 220s don't work...

I've got a box or two of the old Barnes Original in 30 caliber... 250 Grain RN...

Years and Years ago, I had a couple of boxes of them...

Gave two of them to a guy named John Holmes...

he was some guy in some sort of B Movies or something like that..

or so he said...

Hasn't worked for me yet, but I'm old. Still trying tho! Love da 220's! Mebbe someday

Shrap called me about that Krag! Glad you got it!!

K-Dub,

How do you adjust for windage on the 1896 type site?

Hammer?




Dave

I didn't think that rear sight was windage adjustable. The similar sight that Winchester put on their 1895 SRC's were windage adjustable by moving the rear sight grove the desired direction by loosening the two screws and adjusting by hand in rear sight ladder. I don't think the 1896 Krag sight had this option.

No windage adjustment on a '96. They were generally so well made that everything lined up pretty well right out of the chute. The couple I had over the years shot pretty dammed close to center, such that I didn't worry about it. I do know of guys who substituted M1898, 1899,1901 sights (all of which are adjustable for windage) onto their '96's- same screw hole patterns- and kept the original '96 sights for posterity should they wanted to put the guns back to originality. The possible bugabear in doing that may mean different handguards too, as they changed as the sights changed.

An alternative approach, which I did on two of my cut-down sporters, is to remove the barrel rear sight and substitute either a Pacific or Redfield No-Drill receiver sight, both of which work slickly (I did one of each). The Rice peep sight which mounted on the bolt sleeve was another no-drill option. All of those sights are things of the past but still turn up on ebay with frequency and aren't in the stratosphere price-wise, yet. I went with the Cadillac of Krag receiver sights, the Lyman 48K, on my current sporter- but that's not necessarily an option for an original military Krag as it requires two holes to be drilled and tapped in the receiver.

You're only about the 2 millionth person to contemplate Krag sighting issues over the last 120 years. An honorable club to belong to!

I have a Redfield no drill receiver sight (#70 I believe) on one of my Krag Sporters. The magazine cut-off will have to be modified in order to fit sight and have rounds feed properly. Many folks simply removed the mag cut-off when fitting the sight. The cut-off needs to remain in the rifle else the nose of most soft point cartridges will hang on chamber ramp step while trying to feed. The cut-off tip gives The cartridge the little lift it needs to clear over the step.

Interesting.

I have no desire to change anything on this rifle. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't retarded, and that it was in fact not adjustable for windage. Grin...

Groups very well but definitely left.




Dave

So the rifle is a democRAT! Being a leftist...

Bad JuJu...

But you can work on Kentucky ( or is that Montucky) windage skills.

Methinks jugs of water and deer will die.



Dave

I wanted to thank everybody for their help with this. Especially 10at6 for the BT recommendation and shrap for selling it to me.

I ended up crawling through the snow and getting within 150-175yds of this small buck. He was bedded and I put the first one right through his heart. Worked the bolt and had another one chambered when I saw him getting real sick but still on his feet. I held and let another fly and that was it. Double lunged him and he piled up.



Those 220's make one helluva WHOMP when they hit home. Holy cow.



Not much left of the BT on the offside shoulder. Broke holy hell out of everything in its path though. Other one exited.



These were going right around 1,900fps. 34gr's of IMR 4064.

Thanks again,
Travis

Well Done, Skip!!! Good shootin'

Hey hey Holy Cow
must be time for the 7th inning stretch!
Ah 1 ah2 ah...
Take me out to da deer hunt
If i don't get a deer its a shame
for its 1 two BT's you're out at the old
deer hunt...
'grats on the gun and the deer

Thanks fellas!

Back out for some more death today. That thing is a joy to carry in the field.




Travis

220's ROCK!!!!

The rifle is longer than you...........

Cool

Very cool, Travis!

But don't you know that it's impossible to kill a deer that far away without a 6.5 Creedmoor equipped with a turret scope that's been dropped at least three times to make sure it shoots to the left?

Nice job with that old rifle Travis. Love a Krag.

Krags have always impressed me with their accuracy, and the smoothness of their actions. They (mine at least) is surprisingly accurate with all bullet's I've tried, but it really shines with various 220s.

My old sportorized krag (was great gramp's) has killed a few things somewhat recently...I really should get it out more often. It lives behind the seat of my pickup. This particular buck fell to a 180 Sierra of some sort. I hadn't planned on shooting a deer that day, and was just going up the mountain to plink and waste some of the random bullets I had laying around. I saw this guy and decided to put a stalk on him...once I got to 50-60 yards, I just couldn't NOT take him, especially with the easy downhill drag to a road.

Good show!

I got a Winchester 95 30 Army. It is pretty close to collector grade so I ain't shot it much.

I am chuffed you went the heavy slow route for your loads.

It is what was meant IMO.

Well done Travis.

Travis, great shot with that old .30-40.. Really cool rifles.. Very common when I was a kid.. Long time ago.. I could have bought a truck load for $15... My best friend’s grand father sold his in the early 80’s for $10 to a junk collector.. We were sick.. He figured he had a good deal .. He bought the rifle 60 years before for $10 and 1000 rds. of ammo..

T, very sharp Krag.. You have some cool stuff stashed away there.. The Hi power and the m 70 .270.. Nice stuff.

Yes sir...I have several random older rifles in my safe, both family heirlooms and others I have bought over the years. I try to take one out each year and shoot something relatively big with it...

T was the Hi power a buy or relative!! You had some awesome relatives!!

Bought it at the Missoula gun show 8 or so years ago...

I barely know/knew any of my relatives (both gramps and great gramps-who owned the pre-war Model 70 and the Krag died before I was born) but I am about the only one who hunts so the old guns came out of random closets and into my hands...

Kind of sad none hunt, BUT your good luck.. Enjoy and keep the photos coming..

If I posted a pic of one of those shrap wouldn't draw me any more maps!




Travis

I learned a new word. Thanks, angus.




Travis

Had to do an Eenie-Meenie between the Krag and your 29-2 each morning.... grin.




Travis

WCH,

I actually wanted a plain jane sporterized Krag. I just wanted one so I could have one of the actions because I always thought they were cool. When I asked shrapnel to keep an eye out he mentioned this one in the picture and the rest is history.

Lot of fun.



Travis

That's a neat rifle. Good shootin'.




Travis

You guys ever load up some really light plinking loads? Say 110 grainers? Or the heavies with some Trail Boss or similar?





Dave

I had one from 1899 that stupidly I let go. Best loads I had for it were with 150 gr Sierra's. I played with the 110's with it just for the giggle factor. Never took a deer with it though. I picked up one at a local gun show for $150 that has a severely buggered stock. Waiting on a carbine-length sporter stock to come to me that I got on flea-bay. All I have are some factory Remington loads to make empties out of. Still need to get dies etc to load them up. Might have to give the heavies a try in the old war-horse.

Say 10 to 15 grains of Unique, 110 grain RN or SP....

or 15 to 20 grains of SR 4759....

or 20 to 25 grains of 4198, or RL 7....

i have a few of these rifles, couple of the long originals, a real carbine, and what i think is a bannerman cutdown carbine. Those bannerman's are kind of collectible too.
I found it in a pawn shop in northern nevada, was primarily interested in it at the time for 175bucks, because it had a period sling on it, the muzzle cover, and in the buttstock was the cleaning kit.
I figured i got the rifle for free.
I had to have one as my dad had one when i was a kid, he loaned it to a family member who pawned it. He considered it one of the better deer rifles ever made.
I have never pushed them leaving the 220's at 2000fps or most often less.
Lyman i think makes about a 210grain mould that someday i might be able to steal one.
mostly it's cast loads on a 170grain roundnose that i have used in a lot of the .30weapons.
A buddy of mine who is big into these rifles has told me they were never .308, always were bigger diameter. Which means slug the barrel
if you want to zone it in.
i think seafire mentioned it, but unique pushing a slug to around 1500fps works pretty good on a light load.

35 grains of Unique ought to get that 110 grain to perform like a 6.5 Creed...

i have to laugh a little bit, i should send pictures of those deer to a former friend of mine. Former because i couldn't stand his know all attitude any longer.
few years ago we were riding around for deer, and i had a remington 760 carbine in 30.06 with me, loaded with those jacketed 220gr round nose bullets, and loaded to 2000fps. He said i was much undergunned, and it would not be good over 100yards. Now i had shot that same load on a bench and was getting around 1 inch groups. They have a lot of smack down and are accurate.
some fools just can't stop being fools.
He also told me i couldn't fire a cast bullet faster than 1000fps without leading, that was the one where I said, have a nice life.

I have never met shrapnel, but from his posts in the past i think we have very similar tastes in firearms.
Kaywoody is another one.
I think i would have to have shrapnel adopt me if i looked in his safe.