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#12140985 - 07/11/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: pal]  
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ElkSlayer91 Offline
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Originally Posted by pal
I would have bought it at that price.

I hope you find one "at that price".

Last edited by ElkSlayer91; 07/11/17.
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#12140986 - 07/11/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: beretzs]  
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Originally Posted by beretzs
Congrats on getting the rifle exactly the way you wanted. I think you did really well.

Thanks.

#12140997 - 07/11/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: battue]  
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Originally Posted by battue
Most here think he got a great rifle and I agree. They also think he bought it at a great price, while I think he bought it at a fair price. I wish him well with it.
Sometimes there is more to a gun than just the price when a person really wants a certain gun that is for sale.

#12142273 - 07/12/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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battue Offline
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As mentioned, IMO the price was fair. If you received some other form of perceived intrinsic value, that's great.


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#12142548 - 07/12/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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I'd have bought it for that price in a heartbeat even when converted to the Northern Peso resulting in $957 CDN....about the going price for one like that. I sold a '59 just like that about two years ago for $1100 CDN....should have kept it....:-(


"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case"
"The 221 Fireball is what the Hornet could have been had it stayed in school"
#12142652 - 07/12/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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I think it looks very nice. It is a buyers market right now. Always nervous times until we hit " the bottom". I have recently bought two model 70 pre 64 s here on the fire. Have not shot them yet. I am a husquvarna Mauser kind of guy, looking foreword to the regular model 70. I have enjoyed the " improved" model 70 s aka the model 88 s for over a decade. Thought it was time to expand my Winchester experience.


"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












#12142736 - 07/12/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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battue Offline
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As Bob frequently mentioned us Model 70 guys are fading into the past. Outside of prime collectibles, the Model 70 may be a buyers market for some time. Seen the same happen with cars.

Most of the younger crowd will buy a Tikea and never even consider a Model 70.

Last edited by battue; 07/12/17.

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#12147988 - 07/15/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: battue]  
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Originally Posted by battue
As Bob frequently mentioned us Model 70 guys are fading into the past. Outside of prime collectibles, the Model 70 may be a buyers market for some time. Seen the same happen with cars.

Most of the younger crowd will buy a Tikea and never even consider a Model 70.


I think you are spot on, and I think we are seeing this reflected in the soft market for pre 64s. Have seen some really nice shooter grade guns go fairly inexpensively in the last couple of months - a couple of '06 featherweights have sold for under $600 on gunbroker...

#12148175 - 07/15/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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I hope it is true that the market is softening a bit, that would make it easier to put a couple more away! I have not noticed it in Canada yet though our prices are typically a bit less than US when you figure in the exchange. I do know that finding a decent 270 fwt takes some real patience and luck. For whatever reason 308 fwts are not that tough to find.

#12148292 - 07/15/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Real nice (90%+), aluminum plate, '55, 270 Fwt. for $1,100.00 at the Allentown show last weekend....


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#12148504 - 07/15/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Just last week I saw a very nice unmolested standard 06 I think it was a 54' went for $705 on gb. I have kind of felt like the pre 64 market on especially 30 06's softening up.

#12148588 - 07/15/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Didnt yall hear, 30-06s are obsolete? Sheesh. wink


"Giving one something you care about, is giving a piece of your heart." RC

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#12151821 - 07/17/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: Poconojack]  
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Originally Posted by Poconojack
Real nice (90%+), aluminum plate, '55, 270 Fwt. for $1,100.00 at the Allentown show last weekend....

I wouldn't sell mine for that. Been thinking of thinning the herd somewhat but with the market down I'll hold on to them after all they don't eat anything:)

#12151981 - 07/17/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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The market hasn't been down for a good while and setting there bearly holding value they most definitely have eaten.Then again it is not rare to hold onto a stock too long. If you look at Model 70's purely as an investment, then like stocks you can hold on too long.


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#12152545 - 07/17/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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I'm just hoping the current market allows me to find a decent honest 30-06 '50's FWT... I keep looking but I'm not yet seeing anything but top dollar. I'd like a .270 as well but that's probably wishful thinking.

#12152674 - 07/17/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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I'd agree the buyer did pretty well. Yes the market has gotten a bit soft lately, but they will always be the best, so buy them if you find them. My 3 kids are all set with Pre 64 M70's...but someday there may be grandkids....

#12161785 - 07/22/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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The market may be softening, but if people keep parting them out and otherwise messing with them, there will be fewer and fewer originals out there. Interestingly, I'm not sure how I feel about taking the stocks off for a synthetic, then selling the original. Presumably, this "helps" another M70 out there somewhere, although it will no longer be "as from the factory."

I also wonder if the market can get only so soft? Even really beat up Colt Peacemaker's bring surprising $, let alone the nicer ones.

#12161966 - 07/22/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Much as I like Model 70's, they never had or will have the historical significance of a Peacemaker. The Colt became a symbol of American history. The 70 never rose above being a good rifle.


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#12162119 - 07/22/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: battue]  
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Originally Posted by battue
Much as I like Model 70's, they never had or will have the historical significance of a Peacemaker. The Colt became a symbol of American history. The 70 never rose above being a good rifle.


Not to argue, but worthy of some discussion.

How did the Peacemaker become a symbol of American history, and how historically significant was it really? I cannot prove it, but I suspect the west was won by an assortment of long guns more than by handguns. Militarily, I believe one could say the same about long guns vs. handguns. I take no pleasure in saying this, but I suspect Hollywood and television had more to do with the popularity of the Peacemaker than anything. Not that many people know who Elmer Keith was, let alone R.F. Sedgley. Bill Ruger undoubtedly tapped into an unrecognized market, one that many had considered almost dead. But I don't know how much of Ruger's apparent genius was based on true historical significance as opposed to "the Westerns."

The Model 70 was not terribly significant militarily, but it seems to me it is more than just "a good rifle." Among bolt action hunting rifles, there is the Mauser, the Model 70, and everything else. And the best of "everything else" borrows much from the Mauser and the M70.

I'm not saying the M70 will ever have the popularity of the Peacemaker. But I honestly wonder about true historical significance. And like any great gun, I wonder how soft the market on the M70 can get.

Geez, the way movies are going, the frickin' Glock will be collectible! Lord help us!

#12162410 - 07/22/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Not looking to argue on this end either and you make some good points re the influence of Hollywood. However, since we are posting about the value of firearms and the market for them, you can never discount historical significance when it comes value.

A couple most recent

https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/05/10/expensive-gun-sold-auction-1-26-million/


http://www.missoulacurrent.com/general/2017/04/montana-little-bighorn-rifle-native-americans/



I would guess there are others that traded hands privately that exceeds these.


http://www.gunzmart.com/blog/5-expensive-firearms-ever-sold-auction/



You could have Rule's most favorite and used Model 70 and it would be out of its league. The Model 70 is a great rifle, but its' significance value falls short when you factor in history. I'll take Earp's Peacemaker over Ruie's 70.


http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/the-7-most-expensive-guns-ever-sold/





Last edited by battue; 07/22/17.

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#12162881 - 07/22/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Battue,

No doubt arms with solid provenance to famous people or events changes the game. Just as a Wyatt Earp's Peacemaker is worth more than the serial number next to it in similar condition, the one he carried at the O.K. Corral, if you can prove it, is worth even more. For that matter, Earp's M70 (not that he had one, but if he did) would be worth more than Rule's Peacemaker (which might exist, I don't know.)

But I was discussing models in general, not connected to famous people, and I was thinking of popularity compared historical significance. The Peacemaker is definitely more popular than the M70. It may even be more historically significant. But I'm not sure the popularity of the Peacemaker is much about historical significance. I might even be willing to argue that the M70 is a better rifle than the Peacemaker is a handgun, but that is neither here nor there.

As to the most valuable M70 extant, who knows? Maybe one of O'Connor's? If I owned Finn Aagaard's .375 I'd shoot it, but I wouldn't change a thing about it. There is probably a more valuable M70 out there, but if I had to pick one in the next minute, I would pick the one carried by Carlos Hathcock. Even that isn't Wyatt's Peacemaker, but you have to admit it would be pretty damn cool.

On a similar subject, some friends and I were discussing classic cars. I got to wondering what cars today will be classics in 40 years. And the thing that got me wondering is what would still be working once all the computer stuff has gone tits up!

KIndest regards,
Gun Doc

#12162959 - 07/23/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Doc,

Admittedly, models in general not connected to famous people would be the normal course of conversation here. However, popularity and historical significance will always be relevant and connected. If the Peacemaker wasn't such a good and readily available pistol, would Earp entrust his life with it? I doubt it.


Cars? Dad restored a 31 Model A Coupe. It was cherry. Upon his passing Mother sold it to a friend for good money. Time passed and those who drove 31 Model A Coupes dwindled. Eventually, the friend had to let it go for half of what he paid for it. Those who found it popular and at least personally significant had gone on, and the remaining generations had little interest in it. I tend to think the same will happen with the Model 70. In fact, I think I am seeing it happen in real time.

Future classic cars? They will be there. The problem is I'm thinking most will have to be content with sitting in the shell. Because of the failed computer systems, I doubt if most will be running. Shame, for the muscle cars and Vettes of today, are damn sweet driving machines.

Last edited by battue; 07/23/17.

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#12163517 - 07/23/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Battue,

Good points. If there are any famous pieces of junk out there, they were probably what was at hand as opposed to being a careful choice. Not sure about Oswald's rifle. He chose it beforehand, but to my knowledge that model is not considered to be a good rifle. Perhaps the explanation is simply it was what he could afford.

I have heard what you describe about cars from other sources. So you may be right about the M70. There do seem to be some younger folks who have figured it out about the M70. BSA comes to mind, but actually, I don't know how old he is. Even so, I suppose you are correct that there are not enough "new disciples" to sustain a vigorous market.

Maybe the markets dip and recover. What is the market for old Winchester lever guns? Did it drop and recover? I honestly don't know. Is the market governed by that "historical significance" thing, nostalgia, rarity? I know the answer is "all of the above", but how much are younger people participating? There aren't that many 1886's. There are plenty of 1894's, but only so many Pre '64.

The thing about M70's is that many still believe they are superior rifles. If not, you wouldn't see actions getting new barrels and old guns being restocked in synthetic. I keep my Pre '64's "old style", but I might not if I didn't have Stainless Classics. Maybe the younger riflemen don't see the attributes we appreciate?

A bit off the subject, but not entirely, regarding products and what the younger generation expects and accepts, I deplore our "throw away" mentality. I understand it for products where the next generation is demonstrably better, as with TVs going from CRT, to flat screen, to something huge yet light enough to easily hang on the wall. To some extent with computers although for many of us some of the advances don't overly improve our simple word processing, 'net access and the like. But other goods like washing machines and refrigerators don't do much better than they used to, they just don't last as long. Much of this is planned obsolescence that we have come to accept when in the past quality construction mattered. I lecture in Mechanical Engineering. I tell my students "If you want to be 'green', then build stuff that lasts. The ultimate recycle is not to have to recycle. In many cases, you have been conditioned to accept poor quality." We see it with guns to some extent. but not as bad as it could be. The thing that helps guns is that there has to be a certain level of durability, if not quality, due to liability concerns.

We certainly have hijacked this thread have we not?! Mostly my fault.

Regards,
Gun Doc


Last edited by GunDoc7; 07/23/17.
#12164363 - 07/23/17 Re: M70 Featherweight Pre64 30-06 [Re: ElkSlayer91]  
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Seems like many-certainly not all, as exemplified by many here- of the younger guys want to chase the latest fad in cartridges rather than investing in a solid rifle. I wouldn't necessarily call it a throwaway mentality, however, it doesn't lend itself to investing in quality rifles. Then there are the exceptions shown by those who build one quality rifle after another. The rifle world is much different today than the glory years of "The Rifleman's Rifle." I also believe this is the Golden Age of rifles. There has never been a time when the rifle has been built better with consistent quality parts if one desires to do so. These are the good old days.

Then there are the Bic rifles. Something for everyone, hard to find fault.

Last edited by battue; 07/23/17.

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