Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is the .260 Rem dead?

It sure seems to be. Just a couple of years back, it was not that difficult to find at least some decent factory ammo. Local shops even here in SC would stock several different brands and loads. Today, you'll be lucky to find a dusty old box of 140 grn Cor-lokts. Even the mail order houses that I relied on, seem to have dried up quite a bit.

It's a real shame, it was not marketed better. It's a damn fine round. I guess the 6.5 Creedmoor just sounds sexier...

The 6.5 was engineered better re twist, short magazine fit with the low drag bullets of current popular interest, and true accuracy oriented factory ammo. As an off the shelf performer it is sexier.

The 260 has always been a niche round, and will continue that way.
The Creedmoor seems to be making it to the mainstream consciousness.

If there'd been advertising glitz like that for the .260 for us to repeat, it'd be an "off the shelf performer" too.

Midway shows 13 ammo choices currently in stock for the 260.

Both because the Creedmoor is better designed for the reality of short-action magazines and long bullets, AND because Hornady and Ruger started out with the correct rifling twist for longer bullets, and produced very accurate (yet affordable) ammo and rifles. They did everything right that Remington missed with the .260, and followed up, instead of giving up on the .260 like Remington did relatively quickly after its introduction in 1997. Some of the factors that have mostly killed the .260 couldn't have been foreseen by Remington, but some could have, and it certainly could have used better (and longer) factory support.

Don't get me wrong. I've owned three .260's and have one right now, a special-run Tikka T3 from Whittaker Guns with a 1-8 twist. It's one of my favorite "modern" rifles, but my Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor not only bypasses the cartridge-length problem but shoots even better!

Proof once again that Remington couldn't sell a bucket of water to a man whose pants were on fire.

If sales go down any more maybe they will just change the name to 6.5 Rem Express(that even looks better on paper) They did it with the 280 and 244.

+1 - the T3 with a 1:8" twist is a winner.

I'm hanging on to mine. In 30 years only the really cool people will have one, like owning a 6mm Remington today.


Plus, given current demand for it and the generally depressed firearms market overall I'd have to take half what I paid for it just to get rid of it...

The Tikka website shows 1:8 as the standard twist for the .260 in the T3x. Of course that magazine does present real problems when you try to load rounds over about 129 grains and even the 123 grain A-Max is over long by a few thousandths when seated to hit the lands. But with the Tikka you can use their WSM magazine and get another .07" of OAL. It's not much but it is enough to hit the lands and stay within mag confines using the aforementioned 123 and probably some other higher BC bullets in the 120-130 grain range.

It's certainly a handloader's cartridge. With the availability of ammo, the Creed is likely to establish a permanent and significant leg up on the .260Rem. Now I'm just waiting for Remington/Ruger/Winchester to produce a basic, plain-jane, factory Creed stainless sporter. Ruger did for a little while. I'm not needing a threaded, fluted, vented, hydro-dipped, cerakoted, Pep-Boys bling version.

I have long thought that Remington's launch of the 260 would be an interesting Harvard Business Review case study on how not to launch a new cartridge. I find it interesting that Remington chose to emphasize muzzle velocity speed when they loaded 100 and 120 grain bullets in the 6.5 Rem Mag, while choosing to emphasize who knows what when they chose to only offer a 140 grain load in the "standard" grade/price ammo in the 260. If, as some believe, the 260 had the potential to be a better dual purpose varmint and medium game cartridge than the 243, it seems as though Remington would have helped the 260 get traction if they had offered a wider range of bullet options. I don't claim any particular expertise in marketing, but I have to wonder if the 260 would have had more success if Remington had initially offered a 100 grain bullet at 3,200 fps and a 120 grain bullet at 3,000 fps instead of, or in addition to, the relatively slow 140 grain load that they chose to launch with. In addition to the handicap of limited factory ammo options, Remington never cataloged the 260 in three of their best selling CF hunting rifles, the 700 ADL, 700 BDL, and 7600, which seems like a clear signal of their lack of support/commitment.

I'd like to hear more about your take on those factors that have mostly killed the 260 and which couldn't have been foreseen by Remington. Other than the fairly recent interest in the longer VLD bullets, I can't remember anything that was happening circa 1997/1998 that shouldn't have been on the marketing team's launch checklist.

Savage is the only manufacturer currently selling low and medium priced light barreled sporters in 6.5 Creedmoor, the Axis and 10/11.

I think that a standard, not Predator, style RAR in 6.5 Creedmoor would sell a lot of units. Ruger has a limited run RAR with Cerakoted metal in their on-line catalog, but I have heard that they haven't made any yet because the wholesaler who ordered them is in financial difficulty. The story is that the wholesaler had fronted Gander Mountain several million dollars of inventory that they didn't get paid for when GM declared bankruptcy.

Ruger chambers it in the FTW, supposely due to military interest in the round. 1-8" twist.

The Hodgdon manual shows a little higher speeds on the top end over the CM, but nothing earth-shattering and those focused on long pointy bullets are better off with the trendy kid. Still plenty of room for the .260 in the hunting fields, especially with Partitions and other pingpong balls. Any .308-based round is a pretty safe nvestment due to the plentiful and cheap brass.

If I were looking for a hunting rifle, my choice between the two would be based on which was available in the rifle I liked best.

Pappy,

My Tikka .260 has the standard SAAMI throat and magazine length, and I can't even seat 140-grain Nosler AccuBonds out to the lands. Or at least I couldn't before modifying the magazine to 3". (I tried a long-action Tikka magazine and it wouldn't feed .260's reliably.)

Another factor in the general downfall of the .260 is the suck selection of factory ammo. Remington dropped most loads pretty shortly after introduction, and while the Remington website lists a couple of 120-grain Accutip loads, the 140-grain Core-Lokt is the only load generally found in stores. It shoots OK in my Tikka but doesn't come anywhere close to the listed 2750 fps muzzle velocity, averaging around 2550. Most Campfire members are rifle loonies and therefore handloaders, but average hunters aren't, and for any cartridge to be popular with them there needs to be decent, affordable ammo in stores.

In contrast, Hornady has kept a good variety of 6.5 Creedmoor loads out there from the get-go, and continued to add to their list, especially with lower priced but accurate hunting loads.

Even in the late 1990's Remington should have had their finger on the pulse of shooters enough to foresee the increasing popularity of high-BC bullets. In fact the .260 first became popular among silhouette shooters, which should have provided a clue.

I thought only really cool people bought .260's in the first place! 🆒😎

Of course a guy with two dozen of them might feel a need to support an orphan just to justify that investment.

I'm feeling the .260 love! I could never leave my .260's for a Creedmoor! It's just wrong!

Far be it from me to defend Remington, on pretty much anything. They've screwed the pooch on a bunch of good stuff, even before the fatal acquisition by the Freedom Group. It amazes me that they've managed to keep the doors open. When I start to itch all over for something, I never even consider them anymore.

Hornady, on the other hand, continues to turn out good stuff, and good ideas. Their support for semi-obsolete cartridges with brass and ammo does us all a service. After a couple of missteps, I've settled on their brass for my .243s finding it consistent in quality and weight over several lots. (I've got so much .308 and .270 brass around, mostly older Winchester, I doubt I'll ever need any more of either). I remember your initial (I think) article on the 6.5 and was impressed by good performance of the ammo, and also the fact that they put the load data on the box; a great idea. From stuff I've read here, that initial quality seems to be holding up, and I just checked and found they offer 11 loads, which is amazing.

Might have to rethink my notions about short 6.5s. Anyway, the selection of available .260s is so slim, it's hardly a factor.

How did the silhouette shooters deal with the .260's "issues", just single-loading?

I've only owned one 264/6.5mm - a model 700 264 Win Mag back in the late 60's.

If I were to get another of that caliber it would be a 6.5x06 or perhaps 6.5x57 and the 6.5x57 would not be on a short action.

The crede isn't sexy to me. The factory 260's are not either. But if I were to build a 260 it would be on a longer than the "short action" and it would have a faster twist like MD's. But it would be third or fourth choice of the 6.5mm's.

Remington has repeatedly has brought out cartridges with what I feel to slow of rifling twist. Back in the day, it was thought that spinning the bullet faster than needed was detrimental to accuracy. (Those engineers have retired), Remington's 244 vs the 243, the 444, are two cartridges besides the 260 with twists that in my opinion were too slow. Why can't Remington get it straight - bullets are more concentric than they were 75 years ago.

Prhaps what a friend told me is true, the gun loonies no longer work there, they all play golf now.

If .260s came with 3" actions, 8 twist barrels, I may have ended up with one instead of a Creed.

DF

The MRC 260 action and mag are 3.125".

Think "single shot".

Seems they got it right, really right if they went 8 twist.

Remington has a long history of not reading or misreading the market.

DF

I'm a handloader.. I'm in the 260 camp.... I have little brass that is 260 Rem headstamped, but plenty that is 7/08 or 308 head stamped....

I have a Rem VLS in 260...

a Pair of Ruger Stainless 77 Mk2s... 1 in 8 factory twist...

first thing I did with each one, is seat a dummy round with a 142 grain HP Sierra, magazine length and
took each to the gunsmith and had the chamber reamed out to fit it.

Also have a couple of 6.5 x 55s and a 6.5 x 57, chambered on a long action Model 70, with a heavy magnum
contour barrel.. a 28 inch Pac Nor, with a one in 8 twist on that one...

The Creedmoor does exactly what my other 6.5s do....with no real world increase in performance in my world...

people may consider it obsolete, but those of us who shoot 260s don't think so...

but hey, I don't want to rain on anyone's Creedmoor Parade....

and I don't think I've ever bought a box of 260 ammo....

Jim, are there more than the TWO of us w/6mm Rem ?


The ONLY. Reason I like the 6 Rem better is the LOOK of the case ! Yrs ago a friend told me the reason I like it better than the 243 is that...
the 6mm looks like a shorter 270 W. It does but I don't think that's all of it ? ?

If you lay/stand a 6mm R, 257 R, & 6.5X55 side X side, they are VERY similar.

Yep, I'm that shallow -- just AX my wife

Jerry

That would make 3 of us that have a 6mm Rem....

having both 260s and 6mm Rem... does that make one cool?

I'm usually not part of the 'cool' crowd...

I've also got a 6mm Rem necked to 6.5 mm.....

and a couple of 260s necked down to 6mm....

I shoot the 260 a wee bit in silhouette competition.

When I wore out the latest 260 barrel, I seriously considered the Creedmoor. Only the fact that I already had 260 comp dies, and enough life left in 400 Lapua brass to wear out the next barrel, made me stick with the 260. I think the Creed is a better design and is absolutely how I would go if starting over.

In a couple years when the latest Pac Nor, and this bunch of brass, is tired I expect to go Creed.

Yes, once the hunter class rules were liberalized where a competitor was not required to feed rounds out of a magazine, only have a hunter class rifle capable of feeding from a magazine, then most of them switched over to single loading. In the standard (aka heavy) rifle class, you never had to feed out of a magazine, so they mostly all single loaded from the start. The other big change in the last several years has been the movement from the 308 family of cartridges (ie, 308, 7mm-08, 260) to shorter/smaller rounds like the 6.5x47 Lapua, the 260 Bobcat (aka 6.5x250 Sav), the 6.5 Creedmoor, and now the 6mm BR with fast twist barrels to handle the long & 'heavy' 6mm match bullets.

The Creed will end up putting more than just the .260 in the grave when all is said and done.

A .260 and 147 ELD's is an awesome combo though.

As much as I like it, I'm not convinced that the 6.5 Creedmoor is going to be a mainstream hunting cartridge, because REM/WIN haven't shown a commitment to it by cataloging it in their most popular bolt action hunting rifles. Also, most of the current 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo is geared toward long range hunting and target shooting, not, at least IMO, toward the average one box of ammo per year deer hunter.

Hornady offers their inexpensive American Whitetail loaded with 129 gr. Interlocks which is about as perfectly deer oriented as you can get. A quick glance at Midway shows something like 16 out of 27 Creedmoor offerings being hunting ammo. How many types of ammo does the one box a year deer hunter want?

I don't think you could be more wrong. I have no dog in the fight, not even owning a Creedmoor, but I'd bet its popularity will only gain momentum.

Remington has already announced they will be chambering their affordable 700 SPS in 6.5 Creedmoor.

BACO will never be a go-to for the average hunter, but i bet they start chambering in the near future. The "Extreme Weather" would be an ideal platform.

Hornady makes a standard 129 Interlock load... for $20 a box, I can't imagine what a finer, more affordable whitetail load could be:

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-Creedmoor-129-gr.-SP-American-Whitetail/

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...29-grain-interlock-spire-point-box-of-20

Remington (Big Green) has made all too many market bloopers.

Hornady, on the other hand, listens to customers, follows up with innovative engineering. By offering excellent factory CM ammo at reasonable prices vs. what Remington and the big boys tend to do, results in their growth and success.

So, Hornady becomes the disruptor and given their market trajectory, they will continue to prosper while some of the big boys change hands, one investment house ownership to the next. Bean counters in charge is never good for an ammo or gun manufacturer.

Bean counters aren't Loony friendly.

Bill Ruger knew the market, knew the Loony mindset, was a Loony himself, fought with his own bean counters. He was the disruptor to the big boys and look how Ruger ended up with a major market share. Steve Hornady and team are doing a similar thing. More power to them.

DF

I don't have one either, but believe that once the word gets around the genpop about how well they kill, without beating you up, they'll catch on. There's a fair amount of churn that results from guys who've had bad results in the field, and a good bit of that is caused by lousy shooting because they're flinching (and don't know it). The classic fix for this is a .243, but a 6.5 is certainly a better all-around rifle.

Jeff,

Remington and Winchester don't dominate the rifle market as they used to.

Major European companies are now chambering rifles for the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's not just starting to become a standard American chambering, but world-wide. Of course, part of the reason is the U.S. being the largest rifle market, but the fact remains that European gun companies have a better idea of what's really going on than many Campfire members. I know this sounds strange, but it's true.

Hahaha!

Now if only they would resurrect the 6.5x54 as a mainstream cartridge...

Despite its usefulness, I don't think that the 6.5 Creedmoor will reach the level of success/distribution in the U.S. that the 223, 243, 270, 7mm REM MAG, 30-30, 308, 30-06, and 300 WIN MAG have.

I can only report on what I see, and I what I see at the range and in gun racks are bolt action rifles from REM/RUG/SAV, lever action rifles from HEN/MAR, and semi-auto ARs. The only 6.5 Creedmoor that I've seen at the range that didn't belong to me was an RPR. I don't see many European rifles, a few Sakos, or Asian rifles, a few Vanguards, here in Nebraska. I travel a bit in the Midwest, Colorado, and in New England and I'm not seeing 6.5 Creedmoor rifles in the new/used racks or factory ammo on the shelf of small/local gun shops in those states either.

I'm not anti-6.5 Creedmoor, I currently have 7 of them and hope to buy a couple of the RAR 16942 style when/if they hit the market. I think that the factory ammo is great and I've shot a couple of whitetails with the 129 grain Hornady American Whitetail factory load from an RAR-P last fall, so I think that I'm doing my fair share to help it along.

Which is why I wrote "most", not "all". I've killed whitetails with the 129 grain American Whitetail ammo and expect to kill some this Fall with the Winchester/Olin 125 grain Deer Season XP, just not sure which rifles I'll decide to carry afield.

I believe it. I watch a couple of British shooting shows on YouTube and there's a tremendous amount of interest in rifles over there, despite the heavy hand of government. In Britain, it appears the .243 is the general choice for foxes and deer smaller than the reds ( about 6 or 7 species available, I think). After that, the .308 reigns. On the Continent, there's all kinds of stuff. Tikkas seem very popular with ordinary folks.

Ther was a review of the RAR on one show a couple weeks ago, and it was pretty positive. The shocker was the price given: 800 pounds!

I can't help but think there is anything magical about one 6.5 cartridge over another. You take a good barrel/chamber, properly bed it in a good fitting stock, add a good trigger and top notch sighting, and most importantly the ability to use all of that and it won't matter what 6.5 it is- you will be able to strut around the internet crowing about the best thing since silk camisoles were invented.

I can't imagine anyone paying over $1,000 for any RAR.

I bought into the 260 Rem about a decade ago. Today I'd go with the Creedmoor. My rifle is heavy and I'd like a lighter counterpart. It'll likely be a 260 as I'm tooled up with expensive dies, but am thinking of doing it on an Win 70 short action to help with the mag length problems. The one I currently have is a Savage. I haven't had any trouble loading rounds where I want within it's mag confines. 139gr Scenar's are all I load in it.

gnoahh,

It's been proven, in many formal tests, that a shoulder angle of about 30 degrees results in the most consistent pressure (and hence velocity), especially in short-cases cartridges; 20 and 40-degree angles do not result in the same consistency.

The first shooters to make a real study of this, as I recall, were Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell, when they were developing the PPC rounds, but 20 and 40-degree angles do not. Which is exactly why so many "accuracy" cartridges over the decades have 30-degree shoulders, including (perhaps accidentally, perhaps not) the .219 Wasp, developed by Harvey Donaldson before WWII. Today's line-up of 30-degree shoulder, short cartridges includes not just the 6.5 Creedmoor but David Tubbs 6XC, 6.5 Grendel and the the 6.5x47 Lapua, along with others.

Now, this shoulder angle's accuracy potential may not show up at closer ranges (though I have seen it over and over again in various 6.5 Creedmoors), and it may not be relevant to those shooters who primarily consider muzzle velocity the essential attribute of any cartridge. But it's there.

For this reason I went with the tikka in 6.5 Swede 8 twist. It comes with the long action magazine and feeds like butter. 143 ELD-X touch the lands in my rifle at 3.182. Lapua brass is a plus and reasonably priced for the swede. ☺



Tristan

New England really isn't representative of America in almost any way, being far more tradition-bound than the rest of the country. Here in Montana, 6.5 Creedmoor's are nearly everywhere these days.

6BR and 6BRx and 6 Dasher also, I think.

Making the standard load 140 grains made it hard to distinguish the 260 from the 7mm-08, which also uses 140 as the standard load. It's great to have 140 grain 260 loads as an option, but making 120 the standard load would have given the 260 a clear niche between the 243 at 100 grains and the 7mm-08 at 140.

Twist rates and magazine lengths may sell cartridges to rifle aficionados, but the lack of a clear identity made it hard to sell to ordinary hunters. Believe me, I tried.

I have a Swede and soon a 6mm AI so I must be cool. The Creed seems like what the 260 should have been in the first place with faster twist and a better fit in short actions and ARs. I could happily live shooting only the Remington step children like the 260, 6.5 Mag., and 8mm maybe even a 350.

PO Ackley and other devised the ALL Around Rifle in 6.5mm x 57 but pretty close to the Creed and this was in the 1940s. The creed is also an excellent youth cartridge that one would never out grow or be limited too much with. I think it will be a Fad for awhile but will endure due to usefulness.

I bought a Rem 700 BDLtainless/synthetic stock for Hunter class silhouette the first year that Remington introduced them, 1998 IIRC, at that time the rules stated that for Hunter class it must be an off the shelf rifle available to the general public.
It must have been built at the low point of some assemblers day, I ended up having to get it blue printed in order for it to shoot an acceptable group, the machinist who did the work said it was the most out of tolerance 700 he had even encountered.

Admittedly high power silhouette competition is hard on barrels because it is 5 shots in two and one-half minutes, usually a break of one minute then another 5 shots in two and one-half minutes, so the barrels get pretty hot. My disappointment with the 260 was that barrel life was about like a 243, by 1500 rounds the barrel was gone.

I like the 260 a lot but if I were to build another Hunter class rifle I would give the Creedmore a try just to see if barrel life was a bit better.

drover

Stopped by the local gun store yesterday (regional place, big inventory) and asked what had been selling. "Bergaras in 6.5 Creedmoor" was the answer. And this is in po-dunk north Louisiana. I look at 3-4 rifles a year for buddies/family to float barrels, mount scopes, or respring triggers, and I'm seeing some Creedmoors mixed in with the .308 and .270 stuff. These are not rifle loonies. Helping a guy put together his first semi-custom on a 700 and he picked the Creedmoor, after doing a bit of reading and research. Another guy called me last month for my opinion on a Texas smith making him his first turn-key lefty custom for deer hunting. He'd already decided on the Creedmoor. None of these guys handload and the good ammo at $20-30 a box is a big factor, along with the "easy shooting / long-range accuracy" concept. Many have figured out that they don't need a big kicking rifle to be effective on deer-sized animals and maybe there is not a good reason why also shooting your deer rifle for fun is a bad thing.

Good thread.

Never underestimate the affect military rounds have/have had on the sporting world, i.e., .45-70, 30-06, .308,. 223, even 6.5x55, 7x57, etc.

A second major influence, IMO, are target shooters, thus 6.5-284, 6.5 Creed, etc. Those guys do a world of research and hair splitting developing their loads, benefitting those of us who hunt. I don't mind riding their coattails. Their data saves me time and barrels...

Not that pure hunting rounds, like 30-30, .270, .280, .243, etc. and most of the magnums, (.300 WM was a target round for years) don't have an impact. To me, the first two categories do influence the popularity of rounds hunters choose, especially us Loonies... .

DF

Dirtfarmer;
Good morning to you sir, hopefully the summer is treating you and yours well.

I too am enjoying the thread and not because we've been playing with the Swede cartridge for years here either, though I suppose the real world experience doesn't hurt.

Up here across the medicine line the biggest gain in shooters are the recreational shooters, not hunters as it was a couple decades ago. Typically they'll start with factory ammo and stock set up rifles, so the 6.5 Creed has become something we see more and more on our ranges too. As well we're seeing many more female shooters than we did previously and they tend to be results oriented in my experience - which better said perhaps would be they don't need the biggest/loudest - they just want to hit consistently and again the fast twist .223's and the 6.5 Creed does that with a tad less recoil than even a .308.

Those that wander away from shooting paper and steel and into the hunting fields are finding the .264" bullets work fine on deer sized game too and in this world of social media, the word gets around faster than it used to in print only days.

Anyway that's just one guy's thoughts on the matter and nothing more. All the best to you all this summer sir.

Dwayne

Thanks, John.

John,
I would be very interested in the procedure used to modify the Tikka SA magazine in order to accommodate longer rounds. I have a T3 Hunter which features a 1-8" twist barrel but would like to seat some bullets out further.
Thanks.

Had good luck with Prime ammo in my MRC 260 and its available at a good price. Its quality brass which I reload with the same bullet options as my 6.5 CM.

I see about the same distribution of bolt action rifles in the REM/RUG/SAV where I live, in Omaha, NE, where I travel to manage property, in Colorado, Nebraska, and South Dakota, and most places that I visit.

A lot of the breakthroughs in the shooting sports took place in New England, New York, and Pennsylvania despite people there being tradition bound. I would respectfully suggest that while what happens in Montana is fully representative of Montana, it is unlikely to be representative of the rest of America because the population is very small, approximately 1,000,000 people, and it is much more rural and less densely populated than much of the rest of the U.S.

To the OP's questions - for me the answer is NO. I love the marketing that Hornady does not only with the Creedmor but other recent releases as well. Are the advantage of the Creedmor real - sure they are and are well documented. Can the AVERAGE consumer take REAL advantage of those - likely not. The 6.5 Creedmor is a great little cartridge but so is the 260. I have hunted with and shot competition with the 260 since it was released and actually a few years before as a "wildcat" cartridge. I have no complaints about the cartridge and it has never left me down (OK a few rams at 500 meters took hits but did not fall). I like them both and if I wasn't so old and set up with thousands of 260 emptys and loaded ammo I could use the 6.5 Creedmor with no problems (and maybe even knock down those sometimes stubborn rams )......but at this stage of the game I'll just suffer along with my 260 and keep shooting it at game and steel as long as I can . That all said I like muzzleloaders too .

Ha! Somehow I had it in my head you're in New Hampshire (New England) not NE, Nebraska. My bad!

I will say however, I think you're dead-wrong in your Creedmoor prognostication.

Well..... If I was going to buy a deer rifle today, right now, it'd be a Howa Mini, light weight in 6.5 grendel.

Otherwise I'd go Creed. Seems like a better mouse trap.

I'll believe that the 6.5 Creedmoor is mainstream when I see the rifles and ammo at Wal-Mart alongside the 243s and 270s.

I'm liking the CZ more better.

Not if you watch Rips .260. Does some pretty good shooten with it.

Cz got a lightweight carbine in 6.5 Grendel?

It's not so much a matter of sounding sexier.



The 260 has two major flaws.

- a slow twist that doesn't handle higher bc bullets.
- case geometry that would not handily accommodate longer high BC bullets in a 2.8" magazine.



Whoever designed the 6.5 Creedmoor had a clue what they were trying to achieve..

Not MD but I modified my .260 Tikka mag by milling out the rear plastic partition and epoxy glued a shorter version of it in it's place. Some have used a piece of aluminum c- channel of the proper dimension, available at some hardware stores. I then ground a bit off the bolt stop to give it a bit longer stroke. You can see what to shorten by looking at a pic of the long and short bolt stop together.
This worked great for me as I can now seat to the lands with 140gr VLDs and my Tikka went from a very ordinary shooter to the accuracy level I hoped to get, and maybe even better.
I had no luck with the long magazine, would not feed the .260s very good at all.

Kinda. A slick little 527, but it sports a 24" barrel. The local gun shop has one and it has above average walnut for a CZ 527. Even with the longer barrel, it feels well under 6 lbs.

I've had a .260 in my battery since 2005. First was a NULA and now it's a GA Precision build on a 700 action. It's my most accurate deer rifle and will shoot just about any bullet sub-MOA. It REALLY likes the 100 gr TTSX & IMR 4064. I don't shoot anything larger than 130 grains, a COAL of 2.750" has worked well for me in most bullet/powder combinations. It has a 22" Lilja 1-8" 3-groove barrel and I run 100's @ 3100, 120's @ 2900 & 130's @ 2800 fps. I'm very happy with it.

The two major flaws that you cite only are flaws when high BC VLD are part of the equation, Otherwise most component hunting bullets from 85 through 140 grains work fine with the 1-9" ROT that Remington used until recently and feed through the 2.8" Remington SA magazines as well as any of the other 308 family of cartridges. At least that has been my experience with around three dozen of them.

I started shooting rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor because it was something new to try and I'm always in search of new projects to keep busy.

Yeaaaahhhh that 24inch barrel is a deal breaker for me. Their safety is bassakwards too isn't it?

What started the whole "is the .260 dead" with me was when I discovered that the Barnes Vortex line had dropped the .260 from their line of factory ammo. In the past 10 years, since I bought the .260 for my wife, I've never had a problem going to the few local gun shops in our area, and finding a good selection of 120 grn factory ammo for it.
This year is QUITE different. After going to 3 different gun shops, I managed to find 1 old, dusty box of 140 grn cor-lokts. Those same shelves are now filled with 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. Hence the question, is the .260 dead? There were many good answers, things that were never a issue for me, that I simply wasn't aware of. It's one of the reasons I do like this site. I may not post much, but I do come here almost daily to read the posts.

My wife and I are simply deer hunters. We're in the "sight in before the season begins" and then go hunting group. We'll get out once a month during the season( our season lasts 4.5 months here in South Carolina) and shoot a couple of times just to make sure nothing has moved. We MAY go thru 2 boxes of ammo in a year. I don't reload, so I rely on what Factory ammo is available. Her rifle, a Kimber I bought used off of here, shoots these amazing, tiny little groups, with nearly any 120 grn load I've tried. I've never wanted, or felt the need to shoot anything heavier it. The mild recoil, and report, makes it the ideal set up for my wife, and granddaughter, and the damn thing kills like there's no tomorrow. Thankfully, Superior Ammo is less than 10mins away, so I can always get ammo from them.

260 shooters are fortunate that there is still factory ammo available to them, WSSM shooters are envious.

In fairness, I believe Carmichael's idea was primarily a 'perfect' deer rifle. I can't offer any arguments to that.

Also, bullets and long range shooting have come a long way since the 260 was introduced.

Pass the 260 Remington.... epic cartridge...

So you're in doubt of the 6.5 Creedmoor's viability if it doesn't have the popularity of the 243 or 270 ala Walmart. Pretty high bar, one not even the 300 WSM (the most successful cartridge roll-out of the last 50 years) can equal.

You're irrational.

PRdon my ignorance, are you serious???

Are you addressing me? If so, what ignorance of yours needs a pardon?

Yes I'm addressing you, about the 300?wsm being the top selling cartridge in the last 50 years... never had one.. carry on

If you can go back and read, I said it was the most successful cartridge roll-out (introduction) of the last 50 years... nowhere did I say it was the top selling cartridge of the last 50 years. Pretty hard to misunderstand I'd have thought.

Easy now Bradley.... guess this place has bred a defensive type behavior.... cool

I'll take that to mean you completely misunderstood what I said. You indeed are pardoned. Go and read accurately in the future...

It's all good... and ya... but 260 is still a bad sumbitch, that I'll gladly slum...

No worries Jud. It's just cartridges, not real life we're talking about.

Thank you!

PS Jeff, meant to say I believe "you're irrational on this point" not "you're irrational" (which isn't a very nice thing to say, and clearly not true).

My apology in advance.

Typing on an i-pad sucks, and I tend to rush my thoughts using one.

Thanks, Dwayne.

You Canukes seem to be some of the most courteous, polite poster on the Fire. I realize, that bar can be pretty low at times...

But, my hat's off to you guys. I enjoy and appreciate your input.

BTW, it's hot down here, humidity is terrible, just about too hot and humid to go to the range, and that's not good. Thank God for A/C.

I hadn't thought about the ranks of recreational target shooters growing faster than hunters. Hunting is getting more expensive, good hunting places harder to find. So, I guess that trend for people who like to shoot in inevitable.

Best regards to you, sir.

DF

That's also what my friends in the firearms, optics and component business say. The number of target shooters is not only increasing, while hunter numbers remain the same or drop, but target shooters are far more willing to spend considerable money on rifles, scopes and bullets. This is why there are far more "tactical" type rifles and scopes appearing all the time, many of them pretty pricey, not to mention scope reticles that often aren't all that practical for a lot of big game hunting. It's also why more and more bullet companies have gotten into the match-bullet business, when many of them started and made their name in hunting bullets. Target shooters use a LOT more bullets, whether competitive shooters, or simply guys who want to ring steel at longer ranges.

I wonder if many of those "target" shooters are a bit hesitant to admit that they get a kick out of "wasting" time and components on pursuits that are not hunting, and because of that, go to extraordinary lengths to utilize their "target" rigs for hunting, thereby justifying (in their own eyes as well as in the eyes of their "peers") the existence of same.

Yep, a box of Core-Lokts will last some hunters several seasons...

DF

Brad,

I never take that which is posted here personally unless it is a rude, therefore uncalled for, comment and/or a vile personal attack, such as someone posting that they wished that I would die or have another stroke. I just put those people on ignore and go about my business. I think that it is best to shun people who are rude. If you don't acknowledge them then they don't exist in your universe and all is good. Civil disagreement is healthy, as it keeps everyone thinking. OTOH, rude disagreement, including name calling, is just rude behavior and the people engaged in it are unworthy of respect even if their arguments are worthy of discussion.

Perhaps it is irrational for me to set such a high bar, but there isn't any "standard" threshold for "mainstream", so my use of Wal-Mart as my standard is probably as good as anyone's, right?

If the 6.5 Creedmoor becomes a mainstream cartridge, it would be the first commercial 6.5mm bore cartridge to do so in the U.S. in all of recorded history. The 256 Newton was, I believe, the first commercial 6.5mm bore cartridge introduced to the U.S. market and neither it, nor those 6.5mm bore cartridges that have been introduced since have gained much market share. The only 6.5mm bore cartridge that has gained much market share in my lifetime is the 6.5x55 and the initial vehicle responsible for contributing to its success were the tens of thousands of inexpensive Swedish Mauser military rifles that were imported into the U.S. post-WW2. Even with its success, I still wouldn't call the 6.5x55 mainstream, because all of the major firearms manufacturers don't catalog it as a regular offering. Or so it seems to me.

Most of the younger target shooters that I see at the range are pretend snipers, Chris Kyle wannabes playing "tactical" games. They probably do spend a lot of money on gear and ammo, too bad they can't buy skill over the counter too.

No, they can't buy skill over the counter; but if they stick with it, they can develop skill at the range. It may one day dawn on them that they aren't as good as they think they are and they may do something about it. Something like going to a long range shooting school.

Besides the round designed for SA guns, part of the secret of the CM is accurate attractively priced rifles and accurate competitively priced ammo off the shelf

Lots of performance without a lot of effort or cost. Millennial generation "snipers" can look pretty good, first trip from their favorite LGS to the range...

More and more of these new rifles have the tacticool look...

An inherently accurate round doesn't hurt. What's not to like.

The market does drive the product.

DF

I suspect two other reasons the .260 didn't sell like Remington hoped were the .25-06 and 7mm-08, which had already been around for a while. Hunters who wanted more power than the .243 could buy a .25-06 if they wanted more zap with lighter-weight bullets, and hunters who wanted more bullet weight could buy a 7-08. As a result the .260 seemed to many a round that was going over already plowed ground.

Of course, that was back before so many hunters had problems running long-action bolts, or were aware of the incredibly enormous advantages of 6.5mm bullets.

I actually rebarreled a T3 .243 with a Lilja tube to 6mm Rem.


It is a smoking accurate little gun.

Talk about an under rated cartridge. Not that I care about popularity.

My daughter took her first deer with it at exactly 198 yards and I have never seen a mule deer bang-flop that hard.

85 grain Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail Game Kings at 3430 FPS flat out hammer every thing they hit.

I really love that gun.

Yes, but aren't most, if not all, of the cartridges introduced in the past 50 years, since 1967, redundantly covering already plowed ground?

Not all newly introduced cartridges achieve the degrees of success that their designers surely hoped that they would, for examples of such I'd cite, among others, the 17HM2, the SAUMs, the WSSMs, and the 338 FED.

Do you know the number of cartridges introduced since 1967 and, of that group, which have been successful enough to be considered mainstream?

PS - this isn't intended to be argumentative, just curious and not motivated enough to mine my own data.