Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 6.5x55 to AI or 6.5-06AI Would I really gain anything worthwhile?

Have a relatively new Forbes in 6.5x55 and already thinking about re-clambering it. I have a 280AI reamer I could get re-ground for not too much but I am thinking I will gain maybe 200 fps with this or a 100 to 150 with the Sweed AI. I would give up the mild and co-operative Swede and have to get more expensive dies so maybe should skip this idea.

If I didn't want to loose the cool factor I could go 6.5x65 AI and still have the excellent RWS brass. Just about to finish a 25-06 and havve the 280AI a 270 and a 27WSM so a tight niche to fit. Have 200 pieces of Nosler and Lapua brass so there is that to consider. I would do a 6x6.5x55 but have a 6AI in the works so got that itch scratched already.

Probably really need to join Gun Loony anonymous but not sure how to sign up.

Just load the Sweed to higher pressures.

You might get 75 fps and not much more going Ackley.

Not sure you would have enough shank to go with a longer cartridge.

I like the Swede as is, and yes you can load it much higher than what reloading manuals tell you in a modern rifle. The Swede improved (there is a BJ Swede, Bob Jordan version) is supposed to be quite good, but I've never had one. I have had a 6.5/06AI. I would not make one again, if I wanted more capacity, I would simply do a 6.5/284.

Yes with R26 the Swede is right up there with the 6.5 x 284 although I don't know what the others would do with the newer powders. Fun to contemplate but probably a mistake to trade the efficiency, versatility and history on some younger faster hussy of a cartridge that can't do anything that much better.

I'd leave it alone and load it to its capability.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. My 2¢. I just got my 6.5x55 Swede. Not Uber cool, but cool non-the-less. A Turkish Mauser Ankara M98. Haven't shot it yet.

You didn't comment on the accuracy of the Swede? If it's a shooter I'd leave it alone. If it's not I'd try something different, maybe even a re-barrel.

I've stretched my swede to one mile using a 123 scenar. I do not find it lacking. Most underated cartridge ever in my opinion.

Seems OK at around an inch with no real load work up yet.

You may want to try the New Reloader #26 in the Sweede with 140g bullets. We are getting some impressive velocities in the 6.5
Creed at 2900-3000 fps in Hornady brass and Win mag primers(very important). Good accuracy.

My first thought when I tried this #26 over the Chronograph was that the Sweed would be a great choice for this powder.

Good info. I have a Tikka T-3 Hunter in 6.5 Swede, bought used from a local shop. It is a tack driver with no load workup. I have been using N560 with 140 grain Speers and Hornadys. Ten shots, about an inch with an old Leupold Vari-X II scope and 70 year old eyes. I have a pound of RL25, but no RL26. Maybe I should buy some....

By the way, Tejano, if you go messing around with a nice Forbes rifle you will destroy the value of it. The only one I have ever shot was a 30-06, and it shot great. I am past the days when I had to mess with every rifle I owned, so my advice is leave it alone!

This ^

Unless it's a bad shooter, I'd leave that barrel alone until it's shot out.

THEN I'd rebarrel it a Swede again.

In American advertising within the gun culture, more speed is represented as a gain.
Most avid hunters who have used old and new cartridges will learn in about 20-30 years that more speed is just more speed. But it's not necessary a gain. It can be if the bulelts are up to the mission, but many time (most times) it's not
So when you ask if you'd gain anything my answer is a question.
What do you feel is a gain?
More speed often comes with a price. Higher cost in brass (because it needs to be fire-formed), dies, reamers, powder and more expensive bullets because the older ones sometimes don't hold together at higher striking velocities. If I look at the cost of doing "improved" cartridges, starting with reloading dies, chamber reamer, brass, as well as the powder and bullets needed to fire-form the brass, I have found that the cost of a 2nd barrel is often cheaper. 2 standard barrel give more life than 1 A.I. barrel by over 200% because "Improved" shells eat throats out somewhat faster.

Those that say the A.I. shells will last longer and not stretch as much have a point, but my counter point is how fast they need a new barrel compaired to the standard chamber, and also how much extra brass I could buy for the difference in price between their fire formed brass (that means the primers, powder and the bullets to form it and the brass itself) and then to make that brass in a set of dies that cost 300%-400% more than standard dies.

"GAIN" to me is the human side of the equation.

If you were to spend lets say $1000, on your shooting of 1 rifle, over a 5 year period, and you spent it all on ammo for practice in your standard chamber, you will GAIN a lot of skill, and the slightly higher trajectory will not matter at all, because you will gain the skills to hold the cross hair where you need it to be to make hits. Shoot a lot and that holdover becomes as automatic as walking.

Spend that same $1000 on "Improving" you chamber, buy your dies, buy your brass and fire it one time before you can fire load it to perfection, modify the feed lips on your action to feed the new shells, and do all that goes with that "Improved shell", and you will have no where near the rounds down range for the same money, so your faster flatter gun gains you nothing, if skill doesn't go with that new wizz-bang shell. Skill is the human side and it comes only from practice.

243 Win improved users will tell you otherwise.

Yep. It depends on the cartridge, but in general improved cases tend to extend barrel life, because the sharper shoulder angles more of the powder gas to hit the inside of the case neck, rather than the bore in front of the neck. The little bit of extra powder used in improved cases also isn't enough to make any difference in barrel heat, which is the major factor in bore life.

On the other hand, improved cartridges don't gain very much velocity over their parent cases WHEN LOADED TO THE SAME PRESSURE. The reports of improved cases gaining 200+ fps are due to comparing the velocities of worked-up handloads (usually without any pressure testing) to factory ammo or pressure-tested handloads for the parent case. In reality very few improved rounds will gain as much as 100 fps WHEN LOADED TO THE SAME PRESSURE. Those tend to be older rounds with tapered bodies, such as the .250 Savage and .300 H&H. In a round with relatively little taper, such as the 6.5x55, the same-pressure gain is less than 100 fps, often considerably less.

Thanks all I think I have come to my senses and why mess with perfection? I will do more AI's but only when starting from scratch.

I will think about this again if I ever shoot out this barrel but even so I will probably stick with the 6.5 Swede.

Agree on less barrel wear with the sharper shoulder and especially a longer neck but gun nuts being what they are tend to load the AI's on the heavy side to prove that they are worthwhile. This could increase barrel wear significantly.

6.5x55 it self great round.sounds like rl 26 .i have tryed that powder in other rounds.like but had to find

My Gun Loony Not-So-Anonymouse ; 6.5 LA .473 bolt fixation, has evolved some from a relatively simple 6.5-280 AI, to a full on cat with Shoulder diameter ( .460") & Neck length dimensions borrowed from the 6.5 CM, adjusted for the Long Action magazine dimensions.

Shoulder angle doesn't make much real difference in capacity, I believe the 280 RCBS was a 28 degree shoulder, out of deference to alleged feeding issues with the 40 degree Ackley Improved version.
Now we find that 30 degrees is the magic angle for accuracy, however I suspect it also helps with feeding the CM .462" shoulder, and the cases minimal taper .

My Hypothetical 6.5-'06 Uber Improved Cat is Somewhat like the 7mm JRS or PDK in configuration.
Shoulder diameter increases, ie lack of taper, are where the real increases in capacity occour. Moving the shoulder forward helps capacity, at a cost of reduced neck length, and increased forming complexity. Starting with a .270 or .280 case, and necking down to 6.5 with a false shoulder reduces the necking up step.

As MD has brought forward many times, these capacity increases only improve velocity by 1 in 4 at the same pressure. Usually the tapered cartridges are factory loaded to much lower pressures acknowledging the weaker actions these rounds were originally chambered in. Velocity increases are more related to increased loading pressures in the improved.

Of course, some will go overboard with the quest for velocity "improvements". One does NOT have to fire-wall the pressure levels, especially where barrel life is a concern.
This seems to be the lesson that the 6.5x284 shooters have learned. Not quite long enough neck, and too much pressure will lead to an early throat burn out.

The 6.5x55 has a little larger base diameter, .480" vice .470" IIRC which may influence any plans to re-chamber to a 6.5-'06


Carry On

Yes I was thinking the 6.5 x 65 has a slightly larger base diameter too and my reamer is slightly over size or at max on the base. But the gun is safe for now unless I just stumble on another good 6.5 mm barrel. O6 brass is a sloppy fit but works in the Forbes.

Tj : Which model Forbes ? Is the mag length sufficient for an '06 ?

Overall how do you like it ? I was disappointed when they discontinuued production ( or did they ?)
I really wanted to build a walk-around 6mm Rem on that 3" mag in the Model 20