Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Killing versus stopping

so was I we need to dumb down our discussions ?

Probably not the direction you need to be going.....

When I booked the hunt my guide said either my 30/06 or the 375 Ruger would be fine. The Ruger would be a better choice. I used factory ammo 270 grain Hornady SP. The bear was slightly quartering facing me. The bullet entered just inside her left shoulder & exited behind the right shoulder. It took out both lungs. The exit hole was about the size of a half dollar. She went about 30 yards before she piled up. The shot was right at 90 Yards.

Those minutes when we were looking for her after the shot were pure adrenaline. We were tossing rocks into the brush, saying "Hey Bear". Having the 375 in hand helped my confidence.

My guide carried a 416 Ruger with Barnes bullets.

With all that said----If I had to do it again I would use the 30/06 with 200 grain partitions. I've had that rifle for 40+ years and can shoot it "lights out". Put the 1st bullet in the boiler & things usually work out.

No kidding. Never would of guessed...

As I understand the term "stopping rifle" for African game, it goes like this... When taking on a charging elephant or buffalo, you aim for a brain shot, and kill them instantly with a CNS hit. If you miss the brain, with a "stopping rifle", it will either knock out or daze the animal...stopping it long enough for a precise follow up shot to the brain. Most stopping rifle calibers start with a "5" and are used with solids with a flat nose. This is the way it was explained to me, by my PH, in Zimbabwe. Pretty much follows what mule deer stated, above.

Andy3

Phil Shoemaker saved himself and his client from a 900 lb. charging coastal grizzly with a 9mm pistol.

Its penetration and shot place all else is BS.

thanks for your sage and wise counsel..

I just saw another guy kill a cape buffalo with a 10mm Dan Wesson, but if I ever make it to Alaska to hunt brown bear, I think I'll pass on the 9mm. Besides, it's not "AI"...

Along with the 9mm story, Phil has also told me (and written, I believe) that he prefers the .458 Winchester for following up wounded brown bears because it's a good compromise between portability, power, and how much it stuns bears. If I recall correctly, he's used cartridges up to the .505 Gibbs as backup on bears, but also stopped several charging, wounded browns with the .30-06.

I've found African PH's just about as varied in their opinions as Campfire members. Harry Selby, who has about as much experience as any, wrote fairly recently that he prefers the.416 Rigby over all other rounds--and the story that he "settled" for one because that was all they had a local gun store is a myth.

In 2011 I hunted with Luke Samaras safari company in Tanzania's Selous. Luke has as much experience as Selby; I believe he's 70 now, and started PH'ing in Kenya when it was still open to big game hunting, then went to Tanzania when Kenya closed--with a short stint of working for Rigby in England when Tanzania also closed briefly. Luke has a number of big rifles, including doubles, and has used quite a few others, but told me he also prefers a .416 Rigby bolt-action. His reasons are interesting: It provides plenty of penetration, even on elephant (Luke's favorite big game), but shoots flatter than many other larger-bore rounds, which can come in handy when shooting at a wounded lion running away at 200 yards. He doesn't think the extra power of larger .416's buys anything in killing power, but the extra recoil slows repeat shots--and for general BIG game back-up he prefers the extra magazine capacity of a bolt to the two quick shots of a double. Obviously, the .416 Rigby does not begin with a 5, yet two PH's with at least half a century of experience going back to Kenya each prefer it over anything else.

Many people assume that one PH's opinion is universal among PH's, and it isn't. I know at least a couple more very experienced PH's who firmly believe their clients should bring a .375 H&H for buffalo or elephant, and can back up their opinion with plenty of good evidence.

If anybody wants to read about the widely varying opinions of African PH's, they might take a look at both of Craig Boddington's SAFARI RIFLES books.

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Killing, stopping OR even turning an animal that's hellbent for you on tonight's menu is where it's always been for me, whether hunting dangerous game or other game where the nasties live, I've always planned ahead for such an encounter, as remote as it may be, planned, planned hard and practiced nonetheless.

No worries, glad to help.

🔫 👍🏻

No disagreement here. I'm also a 416 fan and I've shot 505's and own a 458 Watts and I prefer the 416. In my experience the larger bore hit harder and do tend to slow the animals quicker, but the difference isn't nightband day.

A lot depends on the bullets too. I've seen a .458 Lott absolutely unimpress a wounded water buffalo, because the solids didn't hit the central nervous system.

Bullets are definitely important!

I read an article by Don Heath about stopping buffalo where he said he didn't see any or enough of a difference in performance between the 9.3x62 and the .416s and .470s to justify the bigger rounds. His experience was you had to shoot a .500 of some sort to get a noticeably greater effect. I sure miss his writing.

And caliber. Guess he should have been using some sort of "AI" round...

Against the preceding quiet, the .375 H&H went off like an artillery piece. It acted like one, too. The bull dropped as though his legs had turned to pool noodles.

I cycled, hard, and reacquired. The grass was tall enough that there wasn’t a shot at the downed bull, but Atlantic City wasn’t taking any odds on what his two friends were going to think about this. Indeed, there’s plenty of precedent for buff acting like the Gotti family when one of their own gets whacked. I remained acutely aware that a buff with a purpose can cover 15 yards a second, and we were at most 40 yards from them.

To my happy amazement, they didn’t seem to think much of anything. They looked languidly around.

But not so the downed bull. He sprang back up like a toaster Pop-Tart. Before he could convert that rally into something more directed, I whacked him again, in pretty close to the same place. Again, he dropped as if legless. I topped off quick, got back in battery, and went back to scrutinizing his friends, who remained astonishingly disinterested in the proceedings.

Back up came the Pop-Tart.

Every time he sprang back up, things were looking worse. First, it meant that the downed bull had the full load of adrenaline in him. And every time I had to whack him again, it meant he had another opportunity to figure out where the rounds were coming from and decide to take umbrage. Likewise, the fact that his compadres hadn’t thrown in with him yet was absolutely no comfort. They might have a change of heart at any instant. With all that pressing on my consciousness, I did the only thing I could do under the circumstances and hit him again, also through the boiler room.

Bang, down again, and sproing, this time he almost flew out of the toaster. All three were now looking around. And then they began to move.

After an instant of adrenal fire hosing, I realized that the movement wasn’t aggressive, and it wasn’t even toward us—they began a slow shuffle off to the east. Two deep breaths, one half out, careful careful careful careful sight picture, this time on the spine, track and slowly squeeze.

The fourth round off.

source

In terms of an all around African rifle, IMO, you simply can't go wrong with a well made .416 Rigby. It isn't perfect, but it comes close. I have found it to be too much gun for lion (at least with a Swift A-Frame), but that is a story for another time. Up close and when following up wounded DG, I prefer a double; not because it is a better stopper, but because it gives you access to an instant and assured second shot without having to manipulate a bolt. I am aware of an informal study that says that four shots out of a .416 magazine rifle is just as quick as four shots out of a double, but it's the second shot that gives a double the advantage in a tight spot.

I don't remember who said it first, but I agree with the dictum that "life begins at .40".

So how do you explain it, when the exact same happens with a 500?

Jorge:

That gentleman you quoted writes in the same style as the late, lamented, Peter Hathaway Capstick. Thanks for referencing the source. I'll buy his book.