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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,085
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,085 |
Crimp with the Lee crimp die...
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery - Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
My main interest in this is whoopsie avoidance. Not expecting accuracy miracles from a 16" carbine, just good function. A 16" AR carbine can be a lot more accurate than you might think. Obviously it depends a lot on the barrel and ammo, but below 1/2 moa is a reasonable expectation with the right load. At that level, crimping may or may not affect accuracy, you'll have to try it, although it's telling that most precision shooters do not crimp. As to whether you need it or not - it's belt and suspenders, up to you to make that call. Neck tension alone should be plenty to resist bullet setback, and always has been for me, but if you've got something not right in the load process, like an expander ball that's too large, crimping might save you. Personally I don't bother, other than to just remove the flare when loading cast bullets.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Yes, crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp die.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 366
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 366 |
I know when I tried to load the Winchester 64 PP and saw how easily they were moving I adjusted the Lee FCD to a pretty darn heavy squeeze and got them to hold. I was still scared of pushing a bullet in and creating a big pressure spike cause I always seat a mag and release the bolt to load. I checked the first 2 rounds I put into battery and found they were pushed back.
I'm not saying that happens to properly sized bullets that are being held by properly sized case necks, I can't, but I do think there are forces that could affect seating depth when the bolt moves forward into battery. Like MM said , you would have to eject and caliper a bunch of them to find out.
I think I could do that with ammo made up with no primer or powder. Without the minuscule chance of a slam fire I could test this at home. That would tell me about my sizing mandrel.. and the bullets I use.. in that one gun..you'all are on your own.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,639
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,639 |
You can also measure the ID of the case necks & the OD of the bullets being used to see how much interference fit you are getting.................nominally, .002-.003" is typical & works fine, depending of course, on the hardness of the particular brass.
MM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
I'll bet I've shot 75+ K rounds in competition that I loaded, out of a match AR in 223 and never crimped the first one. Never had my gun have a FTF or failure to fire due to a round that tied the gun up due to bullet creep... Waste of time in my opinion... There ya go... we loaded up to 20K a year for Carolyn and I and a couple of juniors here and there... from about 89 till 2004.... thats a few rounds. I don't even know if I have a crimp die for a 223.... full case of powder, control neck tension with a collet the right size.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98 |
The only case that I ever needed to crimp was lead bullets in my .454 Casull. Walking bullets will lock up a cylinder in a hurry. There was a newspaper guy here who had that happened when he was trying to fire the second shot at the bear.
Jeff, It's Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over..
Presidents 100-'97 Distinguished Rifleman-'81 NRA Benefactor Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
edit on the way. LOL
They get pissed around here on the fire radio if you talk about over or roger... or God forbid Niner....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98 |
edit on the way. LOL
They get pissed around here on the fire radio if you talk about over or roger... or God forbid Niner.... What the foxtrot? I learned all my radio protocol in the Artillery, over.
Presidents 100-'97 Distinguished Rifleman-'81 NRA Benefactor Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,532 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,532 Likes: 2 |
You might know what "Fire for effect" means, then. (grin)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,211 Likes: 2 |
I set all of my seating dies for a slight crimp, the AR is no different. This has been known to also help improve run-out and minimize TIR as well. Kind of like killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, so to speak... This ^^ If I buy ammo that is not crimped and it's destined for a semi auto, I crimp it. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
I set all of my seating dies for a slight crimp, the AR is no different. This has been known to also help improve run-out and minimize TIR as well. Kind of like killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, so to speak... This ^^ If I buy ammo that is not crimped and it's destined for a semi auto, I crimp it. kwg yep, sure thats why all the winning AR shooters in highpower/service rifle crimp all their ammo all the time, it helps groups and reliability.... LOL Then again the way most shoot an AR it sure won't hurt the accuracy.... Never mind the fact that I know more than a few with at least half a million uncrimped rounds in the AR with never a crimp related issue... but then we do tend to use 100 percent fill and control neck tension the better way, via bushing rather than crimp.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,832
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,832 |
I set all of my seating dies for a slight crimp, the AR is no different. This has been known to also help improve run-out and minimize TIR as well. Kind of like killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, so to speak... I don't trim AR brass so this method won't do me much good
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