Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Swarovski EL - last gen vs latest gen

Timberbuck. I'm thinking of getting another pair of Zeiss HT's. Apart from the magnification, how do you find the 10x42 HT compared to the 8x42 HT in regards to general optical performance when hunting? I found the 10x42 HT the best hunting binocular I've ever used, However, I'm considering buying the 8x42 HT as I don't mind 8x bins and it should have an advantage over the 10x42 in low light situations because of the larger exit pupil.

Please post a link to this Zeiss study.

I looked at length and haven't been able to locate this "study." I've also never heard of it, and I do read extensively over at birdforum.net where they give evisceration of minutia a new meaning. Over there, where no one can agree on anything, the accepted number is somewhere between 5-20% of users are bothered by "rolling ball" or "globe effect."

My own informal analysis suggests the number is closer to the 20%.

Would also add, there is no "mute subject," but there often is a "moot subject."



Thank God it's not "flat"... the human eye doesn't perceive the world this way. It's not natural.

Leica waited in the weeds, studied the negative (as well as positive) reactions to the Swaro and Zeiss models, and in true Leica fashion struck their own balance. I've tried the Noctivids, and they are flat-out the finest binocular I've ever had against my eyes. They almost induce me to buy the 8x42's rather than wait for the 8x32's.

While this tidbit is from Leica's own literature, I've found it to be true:

Thanks to the modification of the radii at the lens surfaces, the sharpness towards the periphery of the field of view has been improved significantly. In combination with the proven minimisation of the globe effect applied in other Leica binoculars and the sophisticated positioning of the baffles, this ensures an unequalled image plasticity. With 19 mm eye relief and generous eyepieces the Noctivid also guarantees an extremely fast and comfortable viewing experience. With a close focus range of 1.90 metres and the extremely fast focussing at longer distances, you will never lose sight of your target. Thanks to the sophisticated combination of different technologies and innovative concepts, the Noctivid offers an impressively natural viewing experience, with the stunning image plasticity of the human eye – only much larger.

Thanks for being the grammar police, that is always appreciated. I found the rolling ball numbers on Birdforum, as
I spend way too much time on there. This was mentioned back when the new SF series came out, the Zeiss Victory SF
was the first flat field design from Zeiss, and they did their homework. The designer of the SF was Dr. Gerold Dobler, who previously
helped design the original Swarovski EL.

You will have to look for the article and where it was referred to.

As an active member of Bird Forum I can say I never saw that statistic listed, but as Zeiss's first field flattening lens system I'd say it was a self serving statement. I have 2 pair of Zeiss SF's, and they a very different design than a SV...both great, but very different in view and ergonomics.

I think the percentage of people affected by RB is higher than 2-5%, or you would rarely see anyone discuss it's ill effects.

So in other words, you have 0.0 facts to back up your 2.5% assertion.

I also find the idea that any study on the subject could fine-tune to .5 of a percentage point laughable.

Talk about "error"...



When you set yourself up as an authority with your tone and posts, yet can't use a very common word correctly, you have grammar-policing coming.

Agreed, not nearly the Globe Effect (RB) found in the Swarovision. Very nice bins, and I much prefer them over the Swarovski. However, I prefer the Noctivid over both. Having said that, binoculars at this level are like grading diamonds...

Maybe Germans are less subject to the effect, but other sources I've seen have also said up to 20%.

And not a truer statement has been made, when critiquing the best optics in the world...all that is left is nit-picking tiny differences in features. It really will come down to personal preference in eye cups, focus knob size/smoothness, hand fit, etc... I haven't had the pleasure to check the Noctivids out yet, tho the reviews by users are stellar...and last thing I "need" is more glass Hopefully I see them at a local shop or gun show, and pricing should come down once they've been on the market a bit more.

Optics are an extension of our hunting sport, like guns, calibers, scopes...buy what your budget allows, buy what fits your eye.

What focus knob refinements have been made? The reason I ask is that I bought a new 12x50 EL about 4 years ago and took it on one hunt in really windy/cold conditions. The focus knob was so sensitive that every little bump or slightest touch with gloves completely sent it out of focus. I got home and sold them and bought an older 10x50 SLC that I really like except for the weight.

Zeissman, what is your age?

The larger exit pupil of the 8x42 will not do much for you if your pupils can't open up enough to use it. I am 47 and can tell little difference in brightness in low light between the same glass in 8 verses 10X.

I find the 8x42 t offers no real advantage to me in the hunting woods. And it lacks the low light resolution of the 10x.

I have and do see a big difference in brightness between 8x32 and 8x42 glass however.

That's either a really fast focus or a customer service issue....tending to think the latter...

As much as I appreciate accumulating bino gack, comparing competitive binos has been the only method for me to end up with glass I want to keep. Can get expensive... Reading other people's results does provide some guidance, particularly if a guy is going to buy one bino and decide to be satisfied. However, treating satisfaction as a decision rather than a conclusion, cuts down possession limits on binos, rifles and maybe wives, I imagine, if you have enough money.

fwiw, really excellent flat glass does wow people, but if I want to see pinpoint stars, I can borrow Carol's. I think the alpha-type "flat" binos give you that wow because even if you are looking dead center, yer brain is still taking in the peripheral and the sharpness to the edge registers to some degree. OTOH, while the HT are great binos, now having experienced flat I do notice the small center in daylight views with the 10x54 on-hand, and am not German enough to rationalize those re-occurring objections away with thoughts of light management and contrast. The views with the SLC, particularly the new HD stuff, I really like, and my "old" re-furbed EL has a similar approach. For me, the new gen 56mm SLCs has the best view of all the SLCs. Carol disagrees and picks the Canon. Daughter, the ELSV. Son, whatever he can borrow.

I imagine the new Noctivid is similar by what I've read, and am hoping Leica gets off their corporate asses and produces a 50 or 56mm so we can give them a look.

They changed the gearing in the knob assembly, to tweak out the notchy/roughness and eliminate some of the dead spot between in/out focusing. They had some issues in 2000 with rough or squeaking knobs in both EL & SLC models. Depending the age of your model, and seems to be temperature induced...could just need a factory lube job.

So in other words, you have 0.0 facts to back up your 2.5% assertion.

I also find the idea that any study on the subject could fine-tune to .5 of a percentage point laughable.

Talk about "error"...


Brad I think you misread what Farmboy wrote. He wrote 2-5% not 2.5%.

You're right, I obviously did.

It's still a bogus statistic.

Well, after lots of research on my own and armed with what I learned right here, I returned for another look at the binos. I did look through a few other makes, but my focus (no pun intended, but I'll take it) was still on the Swarovski. El 10x42 Range, 10x42 SLC and EL 10x42 and just for fun, the CL 8x30. The guy behind the counter (Bass Pro Shop) was very patient, helpful and seemed knowledgeable about most of the binos. I'm sure I stood there an hour or more, alternating between the 3 10x binos, feeling confused and then it finally hit me. And when it did, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind which model I wanted. I think I just needed a certain amount of time behind each pair to figure it out.

There was a (fake) tree across the store with a shack behind it and the area was dimly lit. When I looked at it with the EL Range and SLC, it was a good image but "flat". The tree could have been painted on the shack. With the EL, it seemed to become 3 dimensional, was brighter and more crisp. I stood there another 20-30 minutes, alternating between the three 10x again, looking at the tree. All the models were the latest versions but the EL was the clear winner, at least to my eyes. The EL and the SLC felt better in my hands than the EL Range, probably because of the rangefinder "bumps" on the bottom. I bought the EL and with the Fall Classic Event and another discount, I got the binos for a little less than the best price I could find online, tax included and out the door. I had not intended to buy anything, just look, but it was a good enough deal.

I have nothing negative to say about any other brands but I'll admit, I honestly started out prejudiced in favor of the Swarovski brand. I am sure the other Alpha glass makers can hold their own in any arena and like someone said, it would be like grading diamonds. If I'm completely honest, I've wanted Swarovski binos for at least 10 years or more. I was just waiting for a reason. Kind of a bucket list thing, like the elk hunt.

When I got home I went out back and looked across the pasture at some oaks a couple hundred yards away. Same amazing 3 dimensional image. The "rolling ball" effect - I panned and panned and panned but never experienced anything like that, with any of the models. Tried again at home, same result. Apparently, it's not a problem for me. My wife tried it too and no problem for her. Can't wait to get these out west.

Aside from the elk hunt, we'll be out west for 2-3 weeks and I'm sure the binos will get plenty of use. We'll be returning to Colorado probably every year, as long as I'm able to walk up a mountain. I'm heading to Wisconsin to bow hunt right after the elk hunt and while it's a lot of glass for that kind of hunting, I'll use them. And we do have some bean fields and power line right of ways, here in the southeast.

Thanks to everybody who posted here. I think I got more useful information in 12 hrs right here than in a couple months of homework.

To the best of my knowledge there have been no extensive scientific research or polling into the rollerball, manufacturers claim it's an anomaly/mirage/optical illusion that is physiologically self-induced...I call BS on that self serving statement to protect the integrity of their business platform/strategy, admitting it exists and is caused by their lens configuration(to flatten view/crisp edges)...would be an admittance of additional needed R&D.

RB doesn't effect me, with any of my brands...but people with vertigo or panic attacks aren't faking it for conversation sake. Far too many optic nuts have had to sell their newly purchased bino's, only to down grade to a lesser value model to correct the issue....I'd roughly guess in the 10-15% range. All of our eyes are different, as is our pathway from brain to eye.

If you're effected by RB it's real, in the neighborhood of 3k real

I don't doubt the existence of RB effect but couldn't guess what the statistics are. I'd say, be aware of the possibility and before you spend $2500-3200, go try them out. I personally work too hard for my money to drop that kind of dough without having done some research. Forums like this - minus the pissing matches - are a great resource for that kind of research.

Fischer,
Congrats on your new bino's, they'll bring you many years of pleasure and stellar warranty from the manufacturer. I have 3 pair of EL-SV's, and all are great performers depending on your intended activity.

Make sure to set your diopter setting(under focus knob)correctly for your eyes, it will make the image even crisper and less eye fatigue in long glassing sessions.

Best wishes

As the user and buyer, your eyes are all that matter. Congrats on your new bino!

Thanks Bwana and Skane - I couldn't be more pleased or confident that I made the right choice.