Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Good cop to bad cop ratio

That's not difficult to answer at all. I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that document, as well as each amendment therein, contains individual rights that are absolutely essential to each and every member in society. The extra time and effort to obtain a search warrant has never been an impediment to doing my job...

The added bonus, if I've had a warrant signed by a judge, it generally saves a lot of time later dealing with various motions and hearings in court regarding the validity of a search.

Chris

If you don't realize the thin blue line is as real as the sun rising in the east then indeed the system has corrupted you. .

,.... corrupt scam public employee unions breeds that attitude in spades.

Please bear with me and help me to understand this scenario;
You and your partner have been investigating a suspected drug dealer. He has a few priors, so you know he's a real scum ball.

You've had him under surveillance for a few weeks and have been following him to an house that's been converted into an apartment and suspect that's his stash house. You don't know exactly what apartment he's renting, but get a warrant guessing he's in apartment #2. I don't know how they could have gotten a warrant if they did not know, and stating in the Probable Cause Statement that he lived in #2 would be sworn falsification, a crime and reason to dump the entire case. Plus, criminally charge the officer. He/She would never work as a cop again.

You follow him into the common area of the apartment that has a locked door with a no trespassing sign and didn't knock or announce. How did the cop get into the locked door, following directly behind the suspect? You see he goes into apartment #5.

Instead of having the warrant updated to reflect the proper apartment number, you execute the warrant on apartment #5 and find drugs stashed in the apartment. Bad search & seizure. Direct violation of the Fourth Amendment requirement for search warrant(s).

During the trial when the defense attorney asks why you followed him into the common area when the sign said no trespassing, your partner says that he thinks that sign doesn't apply to law enforcement. Again, how did they get into the common area to see the suspect go into #5?

The judge is also sworn to uphold the constitution, but he doesn't seem to have an issue with the officers executing the warrant on the wrong apartment, nor that fact that they ignored a no trespass sign without knocking an announcing was an issue. Based on your information, the judge is absolutely wrong.

You can say the drug dealer got what he deserved, another scum bag is off the street. But at what price?

BTW, this wasn't a hypothetical and there were other 4th amendment transgressions such as taking a cell phone from someone who wasn't under arrest, with no warrant, searching through that cell phone to get information that was used to get the search warrant. Again, bad search & seizure. The entire case would be thrown out as "Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree".

Again the judge couldn't be trifled with such matters. The judge needs to go away.

I'm sure some out there will conveniently label me as a cop hater, leftist etc. I've never been arrested, never been hassled by a cop, and hold cops in high regard for the tremendous challenges and dangers they face performing their job. I simply consider the Constitution and Bill of Rights as one of the finest documents written by man and one worth holding everyone who is sworn to protect up to that high standard. I fully agree and have done my job exactly to those standards as do most cops. Ed

Let's give a hypothetical that maybe isn't as cut and dry.

You and your partner have been investigating a suspected drug dealer. He has a few priors, so you know he's a real scum ball.

You've had him under surveillance for a few weeks and have been following him to an house that's been converted into an apartment and suspect that's his stash house. You don't know exactly what apartment he's renting, but get a warrant guessing he's in apartment #2. I don't know where this incident occurred, but speaking for myself, I have never worked in a judicial jurisdiction where I could have ever gotten a warrant based upon a "guess," and I have sure as hell never sworn to an affidavit for a search warrant containing information I knew was not factual! You follow him into the common area of the apartment that has a locked door with a no trespassing sign and didn't knock or announce. Not to be difficult, but if there is a locked door, how did I get in? Did the suspect let me in not knowing I'm a cop? Did another resident allow me in? Is it a "common area" where guests, utility workers, and members of the general public are expected to go when seeking to meet or contact a resident in the building? Did I break the door down (which will destroy my whole case right there...)? You see he goes into apartment #5. Instead of having the warrant updated to reflect the proper apartment number, you execute the warrant on apartment #5 and find drugs stashed in the apartment. Again, not to be difficult, but why wouldn't I simply call the judge and update the information on the warrant? It won't take more than a few minutes, and preserves the integrity of my case.

During the trial when the defense attorney asks why you followed him into the common area when the sign said no trespassing, your partner says that he thinks that sign doesn't apply to law enforcement. Well, under certain circumstances, he might be right. In the description given, I don't have enough information to know if one of those circumstances exist in this case or not.

The judge is also sworn to uphold the constitution, but he doesn't seem to have an issue with the officers executing the warrant on the wrong apartment, nor that fact that they ignored a no trespass sign without knocking an announcing was an issue. Really poor judge. He must enjoy getting overturned on appeal!

You can say the drug dealer got what he deserved, another scum bag is off the street. But at what price? Not worth my integrity unless I do it correctly.

BTW, this wasn't a hypothetical and there were other 4th amendment transgressions such as taking a cell phone from someone who wasn't under arrest, with no warrant, searching through that cell phone to get information that was used to get the search warrant. Again the judge couldn't be trifled with such matters.

I'm sure some out there will conveniently label me as a cop hater, leftist etc. I've never been arrested, never been hassled by a cop, and hold cops in high regard for the tremendous challenges and dangers they face performing their job. I simply consider the Constitution and Bill of Rights as one of the finest documents written by man and one worth holding everyone who is sworn to protect up to that high standard. Nothing you've said here would cause me to label you as a cop hater, and as far as the Constitution, I agree.

99% of Cops are good till ya fu-k with em, not listening to them is fu-kin with em!

One who sees a fellow officer speeding and looks the other way is is of weak conscience and is undeserving to have such authority.

Exactly what is wrong....

My entire life I have held LEO in the highest regards. I still want to. It's hard to...
I knew this would touch some wrong, much like asking a Catholic priest about child molestation. Bad juju....


If nothing else I have seen who the true professionals of their trade are. I truly admire you. OTOH The ones toting the line have shown their colors. That is fine as it shows the ratio even among this fine group of souls. Mission accomplished.


Thanks to the good guys who informed us and educated those who will listen. Shame on the ones who think their authority gives them higher ground.

Let's give a hypothetical that maybe isn't as cut and dry.

You and your partner have been investigating a suspected drug dealer. He has a few priors, so you know he's a real scum ball.

You've had him under surveillance for a few weeks and have been following him to an house that's been converted into an apartment and suspect that's his stash house. You don't know exactly what apartment he's renting, but get a warrant guessing he's in apartment #2. You follow him into the common area of the apartment that has a locked door with a no trespassing sign and didn't knock or announce. You see he goes into apartment #5. Instead of having the warrant updated to reflect the proper apartment number, you execute the warrant on apartment #5 and find drugs stashed in the apartment.

During the trial when the defense attorney asks why you followed him into the common area when the sign said no trespassing, your partner says that he thinks that sign doesn't apply to law enforcement.

The judge is also sworn to uphold the constitution, but he doesn't seem to have an issue with the officers executing the warrant on the wrong apartment, nor that fact that they ignored a no trespass sign without knocking an announcing was an issue.

You can say the drug dealer got what he deserved, another scum bag is off the street. But at what price?

BTW, this wasn't a hypothetical and there were other 4th amendment transgressions such as taking a cell phone from someone who wasn't under arrest, with no warrant, searching through that cell phone to get information that was used to get the search warrant. Again the judge couldn't be trifled with such matters.

I'm sure some out there will conveniently label me as a cop hater, leftist etc. I've never been arrested, never been hassled by a cop, and hold cops in high regard for the tremendous challenges and dangers they face performing their job. I simply consider the Constitution and Bill of Rights as one of the finest documents written by man and one worth holding everyone who is sworn to protect up to that high standard.

I don't know what year this took place but cell phones (like any new technology) were a bit of an unguided gray area for some time.




Dave

If you don't realize the thin blue line is as real as the sun rising in the east then indeed the system has corrupted you. And your answer smacks of the smarmy contempt public employees have for the general public these days. Fake and corrupt scam public employee unions breeds that attitude in spades.

My guess is since cops are people the 20-60-20 rules apply

20%. Salt of the earth, we are lucky to have them

60%. Middle of the road, good days, bad days, decent enough people just doing a sometimes very hard job

Bottom 20%. Brrrr honeycomb, they're mainly why these threads get started. Some slip thru the recruiting process and disguise their lust for power well enough to get a badge and gun. They're azzhole cops and azzhole people, most of us have run into one of them and it sucks

What amazes me is that more of the 60% don't fall into the bottom 20%

I swear I don't know how these folks do what they do day after day. I don't have the temperament for it. I'm grateful for the 80% that do it well.

I find the 20/60/20 rule to be pretty accurate any time you're discussing groups of people