Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#12260054 - 09/09/17 Measuring group size?  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,329
salmonhead Offline
Campfire Regular
salmonhead  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,329
Grand Rapids, Mi
Just to be on the same track here, what is the standard way to measure a group? Assuming its the nice triangle of three shots, what method do you all use? Measure the distance from the furthest out bullet to the line between the other two or measure between bullet to bullet and average or what? For comparison sake while developing loads, i kind of want something that is an honest representation and repeatable to quantify the good from the bad on loads.
And as a side note, anyone have a good reason why some loads print two stacked and there is always a flier an inch or two out? Some loads do it, some dont?


Salmonhead
CMG 300 BP

#12260117 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
JohnChilds Offline
Member
JohnChilds  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
Milwaukie, Oregon
Measure the distance to the outside edges for the furthest two shots, and then subtract the bullet diameter.

#12260125 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,329
salmonhead Offline
Campfire Regular
salmonhead  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,329
Grand Rapids, Mi
ok. got it. Thanks.


Salmonhead
#12260143 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: JohnChilds]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 27,663
mathman Online content
Campfire Oracle
mathman  Online Content
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 27,663
Originally Posted by JohnChilds
Measure the distance to the outside edges for the furthest two shots, and then subtract the bullet diameter.


This method usually underestimates the group size a bit.

#12260162 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 89,118
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle
Steelhead  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 89,118
Azerbaijan
Copenhagen can


"When I was a kid I thought that quicksand was going to be a much bigger problem than it is."
Alpha

#12260253 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
JohnChilds Offline
Member
JohnChilds  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
Milwaukie, Oregon
Mathman, I would agree if you measure to the outside of the actual hole. I measure to the outside of the carbon ring, which I think approximates the outside edge of where the bullet passed through the target.

#12260259 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,437
bsa1917hunter Offline
Campfire Oracle
bsa1917hunter  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,437
Orygun
Yard stick...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.


BSA
#12260453 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: JohnChilds]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 27,663
mathman Online content
Campfire Oracle
mathman  Online Content
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 27,663
Originally Posted by JohnChilds
Mathman, I would agree if you measure to the outside of the actual hole. I measure to the outside of the carbon ring, which I think approximates the outside edge of where the bullet passed through the target.


The smudge usually isn't big enough either.

#12261026 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,248
nifty-two-fifty Offline
Campfire Ranger
nifty-two-fifty  Offline
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,248
Far Northstate Calif
For groups over about a half of an inch I find it easier and quick to determine which two holes are the furthest apart, then measure from the outside edge of one to the inside edge of the other.

With one ragged hole the measure of the widest part, minus the bullet diameter is about the only good way to do it. I don't have to worry about many of those, though.


Nifty-250

"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else".
Yogi Berra
#12261056 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: bsa1917hunter]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,823
Pharmseller Offline
Campfire Guide
Pharmseller  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,823
Willamette Valley, Oregon
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Yard stick...



Gps





P



Obey lawful commands. Problem solved.

Member #547
Bravo

#12261347 - 09/09/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Prwlr Offline
Campfire Guide
Prwlr  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Colorado Springs, CO
I use an app called On Target, available for free. The app has a list of bullet diameters. Scan the target, choose the diameter bullet, center the target circle (circle of bullet diameter size) on each bullet hole and read the size of the group on the Rt side in inches or MOA. Works very easily. It's possible to even keep a record of all scanned targets. It also computes distance to center of group and other vital stats. You can also input the POA and it will compute the vertical and horizontal distance of the group center from the POA.


I acquired it for free a couple of years ago, but haven't checked recently for availability, upgrades or cost.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12262009 - 09/10/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 538
GuideGun Offline
Campfire Regular
GuideGun  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 538
Maine
Range Buddy is another free app available. A quick demo it seemed to work fairly well.

Worth a look


-Matt

"The proof of the whisky is in the drinking, the proof of the rifle is in the shooting."
#12262105 - 09/10/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: Prwlr]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,685
Swifty52 Offline
Campfire Guide
Swifty52  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,685
Nebr
On target is now shareware. 15 days usage for free, 11.99 to keep using it. They also added TDS program for 34.99.
https://ontargetshooting.com/




Swifty
#12262355 - 09/10/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Prwlr Offline
Campfire Guide
Prwlr  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Colorado Springs, CO
Thanks Swifty52.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12263807 - 09/11/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,404
Azar Offline
Campfire Regular
Azar  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,404
Utah
I just purchased OnTarget Precision Calculator v2.25 last night for $11.99 (the free version v1.10 is no longer available). You get a 15 day trial and it works pretty slick. It's a bargain at $12. I love shooting, but I hate measuring targets.


“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
#12263830 - 09/11/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: salmonhead]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 335
Hastings Offline
Campfire Regular
Hastings  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 335
Northwest Louisiana
First you throw away all the targets with big groups


Keep skunks and bankers at a distance
#12263840 - 09/11/17 Re: Measuring group size? [Re: Hastings]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Prwlr Offline
Campfire Guide
Prwlr  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,753
Colorado Springs, CO
Originally Posted by Hastings
First you throw away all the targets with big groups


I keep a record of all loads/groups sizes along with wind and temp data on a form. I don't trust my memory. But do not keep the targets.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

AIH 160 1
Who's Online Now
529 registered members (1234, 1beaver_shooter, 22250rem, 1Longbow, 1lessdog, 64 invisible), 1,561 guests, and 518 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod









Copyright © 2000-2018 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.092s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9957 MB (Peak: 1.2549 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-20 19:13:53 UTC