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I understand that if you are right on the lands, loads should be started at minimum and worked up slowly. Does that slow work up still apply if you are a good bit off the lands? Suppose you are at SAAMI max 3.340. Just lightly touching the lands is 3.380. In this case is it OK to begin working up a load at greater than the minimum?
Let's say the min.starting is 54 grains and the published max is 58 grains. Could the above COAL of 3.340 be started at 56 grains and then worked up in half grain increases to the max,rather than starting at the 54 grains minimum?
If it is OK to start at anything other than the minimum when not touching the lands, at what point,or how close to the lands do you have to be to be concerned enough to only start at published minimum?
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I do not have extensive reloading years like some here. But I have read of some who start at the mid range of book loads, in your case min/max 54 - 58 the mid range would be 56g. And I think the loads if they are jammed into the lands would introduce higher pressure. That said...I often find fairly accurate loads being close to book mention COL but then sometimes I find accuracy that tighten up when seated a little close to the lands. Obviously if you are at the lands you probably should start at min loads and work from there. I also read someone mention that the book loads are fairly conservative probably because those writers know all loads need to work in many rifles manufactures.
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How long is a piece of string? Look, every rifle is it's own game. Instead of short-cutting things, learn how to approach the hobby with caution. How someone else does things won't prevent you from finding out the limitations of each and every one of your weapons. Caution aside, if you have pretty extensive experience of your own, I would say the approach you have guessed is fine. What I do is check pressure with one round at each of the 1-grain increments I plan to try for each and every powder, each and every bullet weight and brand.. Each and every rifle, regardless of caliber duplication. Then I'll load three each to see if I think it will group. Moving on, I'll load five of each that show promise. YMMV, but after that you'll have your own feel of "how to do it".
Believe you do have lots of experience, but when someone is asking if it's okay to do (x) ...
Personally, I am far more inclined to ask for good loads and check them against published data before deciding to try them. Had a good recommend for .300 WM and never "developed" my own load because it worked as is. Have fun!!
Last edited by agazain; 10/14/17.
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Campfire Outfitter
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How long is a piece of string? Look, every rifle is it's own game. Instead of short-cutting things, learn how to approach the hobby with caution. How someone else does things won't prevent you from finding out the limitations of each and every one of your weapons. Caution aside, if you have pretty extensive experience of your own, I would say the approach you have guessed is fine. What I do is check pressure with one round at each of the 1-grain increments I plan to try for each and every powder, each and every bullet weight and brand. Then I'll load three each to see if I think it will group. Moving on, I'll load five of each that show promise. YMMV, but after that you'll have your own feel of "how to do it".
Believe you do have lots of experience, but when someone is asking if it's okay to do (x) ... Thanks, I am approaching with caution. That's why I'm asking questions. I don't do something unless I know it's safe. Just trying to learn from the experience of others, if that's not possible ,then so be it. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I just mean that if you can't know unless you test each individual rifle by starting at the minimum load and going from there,then that's what I'll do. I just wanted to know if it was possible to start in the middle to work toward max as long as you weren't on the lands with COAL.
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agazain pretty much hit it. If you familiar with a rifle (in other words you have developed loads for it in the past) and it hasn't exhibited any strange deviations like delivering max velocity with middle powder charge, then you can start somewhere above minimum charges. With a new or unfamiliar rifle always start at minimums and work up.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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agazain pretty much hit it. If you familiar with a rifle (in other words you have developed loads for it in the past) and it hasn't exhibited any strange deviations like delivering max velocity with middle powder charge, then you can start somewhere above minimum charges. With a new or unfamiliar rifle always start at minimums and work up. Thanks. I appreciate it. I have had to learn everything by reading and researching and it was just a question I was wondering about. I am being very cautious though and not "trying" anything on my own.
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[ I just wanted to know if it was possible to start in the middle to work toward max as long as you weren't on the lands with COAL. Absolutely. Good man.
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agazain pretty much hit it. If you familiar with a rifle (in other words you have developed loads for it in the past) and it hasn't exhibited any strange deviations like delivering max velocity with middle powder charge, then you can start somewhere above minimum charges. With a new or unfamiliar rifle always start at minimums and work up. +1 Tried the middle load with a brand new 270WSM 150 partition don't remember the exact load now and at the first shot the bolt lift was a little difficult. When I ejected the round the primer was missing. Could not find it in the rifle even after disassembling it. Lesson learned always start at the bottom. That rifle never could exceed standard 270Win velocities to any degree without pressure signs. I even had it throated and still slow. Shot about 1.25" at best been thinking that I might rebarrel some time but hasn't happened.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I just wanted to know if it was possible to start in the middle to work toward max as long as you weren't on the lands with COAL. That's what I normally do, with 2-3 different powders. I can usually find at least one load that's accurate in the upper end of the range.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Yes and no. This is from a guy with 59 yrs. experience as a handloader.... Yes, I've blown a few primers..... Look up the data for the bullet you are using. Use that COL. particularly if using Barnes all copper bullets. Look at what case they used to develop the loads. Some cases vary a lot in capacity/weight. .308 Winchester brass, for instance varies a lot. Or, what I do is read the data several bullet makers and strike an average mid range charge. Load up 3-4 rounds and head for the range. On '06'/.308 size brass, I usually increase powder charges by a full grain. as I increase the load. Pay attention the air temperature. Loads developed on cold days sometimes are too hot on hot days. Last of all, don't bother chasing the last 50-100 fps. It's pointless and hard on the brass. E
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Look up the data for the bullet you are using. Use that COL.
Which bullets have a COAL designated for them? I must have skipped that page in the reloading manual. Or, what I do is read the data several bullet makers and strike an average mid range charge.
For the OP, if you have data for a particular bullet in a particular cartridge, I'd stick with that. Different bullets in the same caliber and weight can vary a lot in how much pressure they generate using the same powder and charge.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Savant
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I always start at factory length. If rifle is shooting 1” groups or better, I’m good to go. It’s hard for me to find time to tinker.
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Campfire Ranger
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During my 44yrs. of handloading I have always started near the middle, seated my bullets to the C.O.A.L. listed in the loading manual and worked up from there. In recent years most loading manuals list the load they found most accurate and during my testing I usually try that too. Without much other tinkering I have always been able to find an accurate load. A good example is developing a load for my .35 Whelen, when I had my rifle rebored nearly 25 yrs. ago I read everything I could get my hands on about loading for the Whelen. I bought a range of bullet weights from nearly all the manufacturers at the time. At that time after extensive range testing I found the best load for my rifle, that was a Sierra 225gr. Game King loaded with IMR 4064. Fast forward to 2017, I decided to try three other powders, RL-15, IMR 4350 and Varget. After trying them all with the Sierra 225 and Nosler 225 the result was that the most accurate load was the same Sierra/IMR 4064 load I had developed 25 yrs. earlier. The experience was fun and enlightening at the same time and confirmed my confidence in my original load.
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Come on, Smokepole. Are you saying you haven't read any data put out by the major bullet or powder makers ? Some, like Barnes, say start at 40-60 thousand off the lands. So that's how you find the COL, right ? You start with a dummy round(s) at the lands and subtract from that. I've shot lots of loads with different makes of bullets using the mid level loads they list. Even the all copper barnes bullets of today work fine as long as you use the same brass and seat them well off the lands. I've never found big differences in pressures as long as I used the same brass or at least brass close to the weight of the brass they list. E
Last edited by Oheremicus; 10/17/17.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Come on, Smokepole. Are you saying you haven't read any data put out by the major bullet or powder makers ? Some, like Barnes, say start at 40-60 thousand off the lands. So that's how you find the COL, right ? You start with a dummy round(s) at the lands and subtract from that. COL stands for "cartridge overall length." Distance from the lands is not COL.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Oracle
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Do you have a chronograph?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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FWIW, my Sierra no.5 gives coal by bullet, my Nosler no.6 gives coal by cartridge only. Older books I have make no mention of coal.
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The problem with anything longer than factory COL is that the loads may not fit in the mag or feed properly so if you just seat" X off of the lands" you had better make sure they will still function in your rifle.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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