Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Thoughts on a Custom Creedmoor...

Gentlemen,
I am sticking a little rifle together in an effort to replicate a rifle that Surgeon had for sale better than a year ago.

My specs:

Border SS SSR Receiver, Big Bolt Knob, cut for the 2.995" internal dimension Wyatt Mag Box.
Krieger 4 groove SS #4 Contour with a 1.000" long cylinder at the shank and .250" Borden double pinned recoil Lug
Barrel threaded 5/8"x24tpi 3A class thread for a Thunder Beast flash hider mount and Ultra 9 6.5mm Suppressor in OD Green
To be chambered by Jim Borden this coming week 6.5 Creedmoor(decided)
McMillan Hunter Stock, Standard Fill, OD Green Gelcoat, three flush cups and one front stud, Decelerator, block bedded by TM Stockworks
Sunny Hill 525 Stainless Oberndorf Bottom Metal
Borden 20 MOA AL Rail & SS Talley bases contoured to the receiver by Jim Borden
Bix'n Andy TacSport Two Stage & Single Stage Triggers timed to receiver

Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 Mil-C Reticle with .1 Mil-Rad Clicks in Nightforce LWT Rings. Load development with a trusted NXS 5.5-22x56...

Questions:

1. I had spec'd the barrel at 21". Mr. Borden strongly recommends 23-24". This kills the rifle being at all handy with 8.5" of Suppressor which it will sport the vast majority of the time. I have considered going to 22" at a maximum as a middle ground choice. Normally I would have said cut & crown barrel it to what I originally spec'd as I am paying the bill. That said Jim Borden has been on a another level when it comes to attention to detail not to mention a few other issues. I've come to respect him to the point I really don't want to ignore his advice...

2. Chambering: I have both 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua & 6.5x47L Lapua Brass in profusion on hand. He suggested sticking with the 6.5x47 if I insist on a short barrel OR reap the modest powder capacity improvements of the 6.5 CM if I go with a bit more barrel. They are six of one and half dozen of another to me short the heavier bullets. I'd like to be able to shoot the 147 ELDs and the Creedmoor is a little better off with that bullet. Ultra accuracy edge goes to the 6.5x47L if we're talking bench guns and competition, however, I am not and this build is hardly going in that direction. Do believe I am going 6.5 CM...

I have plenty of H4350 on hand as well as a little RL17 for the 147s...



3. Stock: I had planned to order one of Darcy's Shrikes for the project, however, it just did not get done. The McMillan Hunter is just a TRY. I've heard good things about the ergos. If it is not what i want I can move the Hunter after I have a Shrike fitted to the barreled action. Stock input?

4. Scope Bases & Triggers: I'm aware it is odd to time two triggers(Single and Two Stage) as well as two scope mounting systems. On the triggers I frankly wanted to keep my options open(have not tried the Two Stage TacSport yet) and the same goes for the Talley SS Bases(Borden only offers them in Aluminum). He also contoured them to his lightening cuts as a courtesy. More so because I think it bothers him to look at any minor detail out of order...

I will say that despite holding some strong opinions that may run counter to your own, I have found dealing with Jim Borden, to be both a learning opportunity and a pleasure. This will NOT be my last Borden... Unless I get hit by the Ice Cream Truck...;-)

Surgeon Rifle Pic:



I appreciate your input ahead of time...

Regards, Matt.

www.bordenrifles.com

I assume this is for hunting.
Barrel it at 16" - 18" for suppressor use. Either head stamp. You can achieve full powder burn in this length with the creed and 120-130 class bullets according to QL and depending on powder choice. Easily a 500 yd+deer killer.
If stock on the heavies, I'd go longer on the barrel.
The Hunter is my favorite hunting stock. I have 2 of them.

I have a Tikka T3 in 6,5x55 mated to McMillan A3 stock.

I am cutting the barrel to 20" because I am going to use it with a silencer 99% of the time.
I wanted a mobile rifle.. the extra fps is not going to help me within the ranges I shoot animals.

I would also consider the A-3.. it has been the best fitting McMillan stock I have ever used for prone and standing shooting.
It lines up perfectly with the lowest rings I could find.

If you want the "classic" hunting type stock, I would get the Shrike.

I'd cut it 20" in either and not fret the least bit, esp the minimal velocity "loss" over a couple of inches. You should make some of that back up with the suppressor, or at least that has been my experience with 7-8 of them.

All my hunting rigs have been cut there and even with the skosh longer Harvester, they handle very well. (The ULTRA 7 is next on my list) One thing to consider in the chance you aren't running suppressed is the little bit of muzzle blast you may get going shorter than that.

I'll drop the bomb in the equation and say go Manners all day, everyday...grin...

If you haven’t bought the Ultra 9 yet, maybe consider the Ultra 7 with a 22” barrel?

If you are wanting to run the can then cut it 21



I would also run the creed over the 47, and I love a 47

But in a shorter barrel the creed should give more performance


I’ve got a 21 inch 6.5 creed in the works Myself #2 Lilja so no can

But I’m building an 18inch 308 for suppressed hunting

A 21 creed would be sweet. I would also say the ultra 7 over the 8

This

What's this puppy projected to weigh all up?

I've known and dealt with Jim Borden for about 25 years. He has done work for me and I've sold him product. Good to do business with. I can't advise you on your build. I'm building one at this time to be mounted in a Eliseo rifle chassis. I'm using a Shilen Palma taper ratchet barrel at 25".

Gentlemen,
I greatly appreciate your input...

TBAC Ultra 9 6.5mm in OD approved and waiting on pickup. Ultra 7 SHOULD have been considered, however, we are a touch late on that... I have 5 TBAC Ultra cans and the only Ultra 7 is a .223 can. 13 suppressors all tolled and I'm just about done short of a 9mm can down the road. I've donated too much money to the ATF for Stamps...

I am going to stick with 21"

No clue on weight. I won't be an ultra-lite nor should it be a hog. The stock ships from McMillan tomorrow morning and Mr. Borden should be done with the barreling either this week or next...

I've decided to go with a Creed.

Regards, Matt.

Matt,
I’ll wager it’s a shooter... share pics when it’s done!

Kimber7,
Thank you, I hope it is... Will follow with pictures.

Regards, Matt.

I think the Creed and 20"-21" barrel is a good choice. My 22" Creed gives 2,760 fps with 140gr Accubonds and 143gr ELDxs over a less than max load of RL16. I'm planning on chopping and threading at 19"-20" for a handier suppressed hunting setup. Congrats on the new rifle build, looks very nice.

Since I'm planning on a Creedmoor, I've looked around for RL16/Creedmoor data and can't find that Alliant has any. How do you know what a "max" load of RL16 is in the Creedmoor?

Matt,

What was the reasoning for extending the barrel? Was it only for the extra speed it would allow? I own three 6.5 Creedmoors, semi-Custom bolt 27" barrel that pushes a 140gr Berger 2,850 fps, AR-10, 24" barrel pushing 123 Gr Amax 2845 fps and a Bergara 6.5 CM 21" pushing 140 Gr Amax 2955 fps. The big difference is that the first two I use Hornady brass and the Bergara I'm using Lapua brass. I've taken the first two out and stretched their legs, the semi Custom to 1,200 yds and the AR to 800 yds. But the Bergara I've only taken it to 200 yds so far. I thought I would loose a little speed when I purchased the Bergara with the shorter barrel but so far it's faster than my other two rifles.

This is beyond screaming for a 140 grainer. This is 6.5-284 speeds. Did you mean to say 120 grain?

LOL

No...I didn't...lol...I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say something...that's what the chrono registered and frankly I haven't taken it beyond 200yds so although it was spot on at 200 yards I will find out if it's actually true when I stretch it out after hunting season. But the chrono has been accurate with the other two.

Hope you shoot with a welding mask on.

Found it... Sierra gives RL16 data for a 140 from the Creedmoor. 43.5 grs for 2,800 fps from a 24" barrel, so 2,750 certainly makes sense from a 22" barrel.

https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/6-5-creedmoor-data-final-as.pdf