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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Again, that’s a product of decades of scope history being full of shifting zero problems. If scopes stopped shifting zero, I mean ALL scopes, then PH’s would eventually stop making people check their scopes upon arrival. What I’m envisioning is not a current reality, but we’re working in the right direction so that scope makers start to take the shifting-zero/scope machanics problem a little more seriously.


Tract's representative told me they are contacting the folks producing their scopes concerning this. They are noticing.


What else can they say and maintain any credibility whatsoever??


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They could say I'm asking for more than should be expected of a scope. They could say you shouldn't test our scope in that way. They could say you just voided your warranty. ....but they didn't.

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Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?

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Originally Posted by nuguy
Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?



Let's just cut to the chase:

Somebody needs to drop test their $2500 Nightforce...............


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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by nuguy
Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?



Let's just cut to the chase:

Somebody needs to drop test their $2500 Nightforce...............


And the SWFA's and Bushy LRHS.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by nuguy
Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?



Let's just cut to the chase:

Somebody needs to drop test their $2500 Nightforce...............


See this link, looks like Form did that in the thread that started this whole mess.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-rtz-zero-retention-results#Post12361426

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Originally Posted by alpinecrick

Everybody who expects a rifle scope--any rifle scope-- and the mounts/rings to perform flawlessly after being dropped directly on the ground three times please raise their hand...............


If a scope is built to handle magnum recoil, it can handle a modest drop. If it can't handle a modest drop, it's not a matter of if but when it will fail.

Given the option between purchasing a scope that is unlikely to survive a drop, and one that is likely to survive a drop, I'll choose the scope more likely to survive the drop.

Similar to my approach when purchasing a vehicle. I don't expect any manufacturer to produce a car that never breaks down. But I will choose a manufacturer that has a proven record of producing cars that are less likely to break down.

The only scopes I've had that without question failed i.e. the guns wouldn't group because the scope couldn't hold a zero were bottom of the line bushnell scopes. I wasn't surprised given how cheap they were, and wouldn't be surprised to currently produced bottom barrel scopes to fail. But a scope in the $500-1000 range, it damn well better hold zero and handle a few bumps.

Given the price of ammo and putting just a modicum of value to my time, chasing a zero at the range on a scope that won't hold zero is a minimum of $100 down the toilet. Looking at the value of my wages taking off a week for a hunt and the cost of accessing a hunting area is in the thousands not to mention I can't just climb out of the tree stand and drive the 4 wheeler to Cabelas for a replacement.

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You guys pitch in and buy me NF and I'll beat the sheit out of it for you if I can keep it afterwards!


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Originally Posted by VaHunter
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by nuguy
Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?



Let's just cut to the chase:

Somebody needs to drop test their $2500 Nightforce...............


See this link, looks like Form did that in the thread that started this whole mess.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-rtz-zero-retention-results#Post12361426


Form dropped them ~12" onto a padded mat, on the rifle's side. In this test, the scope had 6-7 lbs of rifle inertia piling on top of it as it hit the ground from 3-4 feet. I haven't done the math but that is a HUGE difference in impact force.


I do reliability and HALT testing on a regular basis in a $250,000 environmental chamber on complex electronic devices. EVERY product will fail, just a matter of what their life time is based on the energy it is subjected too.

I guarantee that I can break every scope ever made, but what does that prove?

Last edited by gzig5; 11/02/17.
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Originally Posted by VaHunter
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by nuguy
Does Leupold do a drop test like that? Do they always pass with flying colors?



Let's just cut to the chase:

Somebody needs to drop test their $2500 Nightforce...............


See this link, looks like Form did that in the thread that started this whole mess.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-rtz-zero-retention-results#Post12361426


I originally thought he was dropping them from 12", but you're right he did drop the NF from "waist high" onto a padded mat..


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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by alpinecrick

Everybody who expects a rifle scope--any rifle scope-- and the mounts/rings to perform flawlessly after being dropped directly on the ground three times please raise their hand...............


If a scope is built to handle magnum recoil, it can handle a modest drop. If it can't handle a modest drop, it's not a matter of if but when it will fail.





Not really, recoil that a typical scope is designed to endure is on one axis, back and forth along the length of the scope.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by alpinecrick

Everybody who expects a rifle scope--any rifle scope-- and the mounts/rings to perform flawlessly after being dropped directly on the ground three times please raise their hand...............


If a scope is built to handle magnum recoil, it can handle a modest drop. If it can't handle a modest drop, it's not a matter of if but when it will fail.

Given the option between purchasing a scope that is unlikely to survive a drop, and one that is likely to survive a drop, I'll choose the scope more likely to survive the drop.

Similar to my approach when purchasing a vehicle. I don't expect any manufacturer to produce a car that never breaks down. But I will choose a manufacturer that has a proven record of producing cars that are less likely to break down.

The only scopes I've had that without question failed i.e. the guns wouldn't group because the scope couldn't hold a zero were bottom of the line bushnell scopes. I wasn't surprised given how cheap they were, and wouldn't be surprised to currently produced bottom barrel scopes to fail. But a scope in the $500-1000 range, it damn well better hold zero and handle a few bumps.

Given the price of ammo and putting just a modicum of value to my time, chasing a zero at the range on a scope that won't hold zero is a minimum of $100 down the toilet. Looking at the value of my wages taking off a week for a hunt and the cost of accessing a hunting area is in the thousands not to mention I can't just climb out of the tree stand and drive the 4 wheeler to Cabelas for a replacement.





A scope is designed to take a certain level of "hits" from being knocked around. Comparing recoil while mounted on a rifle is an entirely different impact than a drop test.

Your truck is designed to absorb impacts from potholes while hauling butt down the road, it is not designed to be turned upside down and dropped in your driveway. There's a difference.


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Years ago I was crossing a frozen creek before dawn on an elk hunt and broke thru in knee deep water and slammed my Leupold VX-3 3.5-10 onto the ice pretty hard. Hunted all morning and upon loading the rifle into the pick-up I noticed that the objective bell no longer had the gap between it and the barrel. Checked the zero on the way home and it was reduced to acre of angle. I guess it flunked the drop test.
Asked Leupold if it could be fixed and they told me to buy another one.

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Originally Posted by wareagle700
Most Nightforce scopes are a good bit less than $2500, starting at $800ish, and "milspec" is an abused term that has taken on a whole new meaning. Nightforce scopes are just made right and I can't wait to see what they keep bringing to the market.

If Nightforce is out there, (cough, SHV F1 5-20X50 w/ illuminated MIL-C, cough)


The video that was posted was the NXS model which is MIL SPEC. Id love to see someone that their NF and drop it on its turret and see how it does. This drop these intent realistic thats what Im saying.


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Originally Posted by Technoman26
I think it would be interesting if someone, perhaps with QR rings, would remove the scope, drop the rifle, reinstall the scope and see if the POI changes dramatically. Although there is plenty of anecdotal evidence there might indeed be an issue with the scopes being tested in the drop tests, conclusive evidence that the problem is the scope alone doesn't seem to be there.

That said, I'm still not dropping one of my rifles on the ground on purpose. I've dropped a rifle when taking a spill, had it slide of a rock, fallen down on it and had it fall over when leaned on a tree while I was taking a leak. Luckily I've not had one shift point of impact from any of those circumstances. But I'm also not dropping it repeatedly on the scope.

I do find these drop tests interesting, I'm just not 100% convinced the sole problem is the scope. There are other variable here as well as the scope.

YMMV,
Rob


Rob I like your train of thought. I said the same thing to my buddy. Test a rifle with irons before and after a drop test. Too many variables like the stock, bedding, mount and bases.


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Highly Accelerated Life Testing-ah, that brings back memories.

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Originally Posted by bhoges
Originally Posted by wareagle700
Most Nightforce scopes are a good bit less than $2500, starting at $800ish, and "milspec" is an abused term that has taken on a whole new meaning. Nightforce scopes are just made right and I can't wait to see what they keep bringing to the market.

If Nightforce is out there, (cough, SHV F1 5-20X50 w/ illuminated MIL-C, cough)


The video that was posted was the NXS model which is MIL SPEC. Id love to see someone that their NF and drop it on its turret and see how it does. This drop these intent realistic thats what Im saying.


It's happened to me with a 17lb F-Class gun and the rifle didn't move 1/4" from its zero. Landed on its elevation turret.

No, not all NXS scopes are "milspec" as the military doesn't use all NXS scopes. I have several that don't meet military specifications.

Last edited by wareagle700; 11/02/17.

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I have a March 8-80x56 mounted on a 18lb FTR gun. 3 weeks ago in the Texas Midrange State Match I dropped the gun off a 4 foot high table. It landed scope down on a aluminum gun case and hit so hard one of the turrets knocked a hole in the top of the case, right through the aluminum into the foam on the inside. The scope never moved off its 600 yard zero. Tract aint doing something right.

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I’d be curious is anyone makes a 1” tube capable of passing the drop test


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Originally Posted by GrimJim
if there were an mil-spec for scopes, Night Force could probably meet it with no additional costs for the bill of materials and assembly. But meeting a mil-spec means testing, certification and a dedicated quality control process. These would drive up the cost. If you include a shake and bake production test, that would drive it up further. Depending on things like side impact and drop testing, there might be some redesign effort that would need to be recovered.

Most would pay more for a device that is promised to work as it should work. Further SWFA does it inexpensively. I cannot believe you would pay $700 for a Tract but not $800 for one guaranteed to hold zero once the improved version is released. I have an accupower 1-8 i want to test

Last edited by jimmyp; 11/03/17.
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