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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
One thing is becoming very clear in the incident...
The guy that armed himself and shot the bad guy is truly a hero in every sense of the word. He prevented the shooter from killing more people. Perhaps MANY more, because there was another church in Sutherland Springs just down the road from the Baptist church he attacked.
The bad guy had an arsenal in his vehicle. We may never know, but I think the rampage would have continued, had he not been stopped when he was.
The fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with one just proves we need Constitutional Carry anywhere and everywhere on U.S. soil. You're not just a woofin'. I very seldom get out of Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma. Occasionally I will go to Texas and see relatives and even more occasionally venture into Arkansas or Louisiana. Other than these areas, it doesn't impact me much. I'd sure like to see Constitutional Carry from Kansas to Texas with all three states recognizing it for residents of other states. It could be the start of a new country if things get tight enough. Its been spoken of before. Add Missouri and I'm golden. Add the other two states and it's gravy. Constitutional Carry is so good it's unreal. The only thing better is if people would wise up and FORCE the government to obey it's own laws and just actually recognize the 2nd Amendment, meaning we wouldn't have to pass laws for Constitutional Carry as we'd just simply be able to do it.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I used to be a regular church-goer and I admit to never having carried in Church-that I recall. I've just never felt the need. I live in BF southeast Kansas and the town where the Church is is about 600 souls strong, I'd guess. This has gotten me to thinking that this could happen anywhere, anytime and makes me a lot more worried about my kids at school-though we have some safeguards in place.
That being Texas, I'm really convinced that if we ever find out, it will be revealed that several of the 27 vics were carrying but for whatever reason just couldn't bring their weapons into play. If that's the case it just shows the need for training. I don't mean mandatory bs CCW stuff, I mean real advanced training and mindset.
People like us have no safe space. I wouldn't have it any other way though...
Edited to say: K-Y Windage isn't one of us.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,027 Likes: 63 |
One thing is becoming very clear in the incident...
The guy that armed himself and shot the bad guy is truly a hero in every sense of the word. He prevented the shooter from killing more people. Perhaps MANY more, because there was another church in Sutherland Springs just down the road from the Baptist church he attacked.
The bad guy had an arsenal in his vehicle. We may never know, but I think the rampage would have continued, had he not been stopped when he was.
The fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with one just proves we need Constitutional Carry anywhere and everywhere on U.S. soil. Absolutely.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
So perhaps we should ask why an individual with a dishonorable discharge from the Military should be allowed to purchase a Modern Sporting Rifle? Perhaps we need a little more screening of folks? "K-Y Windage" sounds like some really greasy [bleep]'s fart.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,027 Likes: 63 |
One thing is becoming very clear in the incident...
The guy that armed himself and shot the bad guy is truly a hero in every sense of the word. He prevented the shooter from killing more people. Perhaps MANY more, because there was another church in Sutherland Springs just down the road from the Baptist church he attacked.
The bad guy had an arsenal in his vehicle. We may never know, but I think the rampage would have continued, had he not been stopped when he was.
The fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with one just proves we need Constitutional Carry anywhere and everywhere on U.S. soil. Absolutely!
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Joined: Jan 2014
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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KYwindageII is not really an elitist.
He is a FASCIST HYPOCRITE who believes only "certain" people have rights.
The founding fathers drew up the Constitution to PROTECT US from freedom robbing pricks like him.
F.O.A.D.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 2 |
We can all give our opinions, and knock other posters for giving theirs, but one thing is for certain.......if these mass shootings continue, there WILL be some new forms of gun control. You can take that to the bank!! It will happen, and there will be nothing that we can do about it. It won't do any good, it won't stop the bad guys from killing, it will only make those who support it "feel good."
There are people who don't need access whatsoever to a firearm, but the problem is in determining who they are, and how to go about keeping them from getting one. For the most part, the laws on the books don't work because the judicial system either fails to act properly, or else the person obtains a gun illegally.
I'll give you an example......there is a law on the books that says a convicted felon cannot be in the possession of a firearm. My neighbor has a druggie son, a convicted felon. He gets caught with a house full of guns, gets arrested, then his daddy's boss who has political connections intervenes, charges are "amended", kid is back out on the street. He hunts deer on his daddy's property, because I've seen him, and nothing is ever done, even though according to the judicial system, he should be locked up for breaking the law.
Things such as that happen everyday across this country. I believe in enforcing the laws on the book, and believe that if we did, we could stop some of the violence from happening. Instead, we let people out of jail who need to be locked up forever, and once out, they continue to do what they doing that caused them to get in trouble in the first place. We will never completely stop people from committing violent acts, because they are going to do so regardless of the weapon used, or the reason they do it. But, I think we can potentially keep some acts from happening by enforcing the laws on the books, and making certain that a person who needs to be in jail, stays in jail.
People killing one another has gone on since Abel and Cain, and will happen as long as there are people on this earth. Cain didn't use a gun to commit that murder, so to blame guns as the reason is useless. Lizzie Borden didn't use a gun, neither did that Pakistani woman who recently murdered 17 of her relatives by poisoning them. Guns are merely a tool, but because they are a very efficient tool, they come under more intense scrutiny than would an axe or a club. Guns aren't the problem, people are, and therefore the answer lies in people control, not gun control.........something that's easier said than done.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
...if these mass shootings continue, there WILL be some new forms of gun control. You can take that to the bank!! It will happen, and there will be nothing that we can do about it. Horse [bleep]. Not if we stand fast and if it happens there IS something we can do about it. Read your Constitution and don't puss out.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,777 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,777 Likes: 42 |
We can all give our opinions, and knock other posters for giving theirs, but one thing is for certain.......if these mass shootings continue, there WILL be some new forms of gun control. You can take that to the bank!! It will happen, and there will be nothing that we can do about it. It won't do any good, it won't stop the bad guys from killing, it will only make those who support it "feel good."
There are people who don't need access whatsoever to a firearm, but the problem is in determining who they are, and how to go about keeping them from getting one. For the most part, the laws on the books don't work because the judicial system either fails to act properly, or else the person obtains a gun illegally.
I'll give you an example......there is a law on the books that says a convicted felon cannot be in the possession of a firearm. My neighbor has a druggie son, a convicted felon. He gets caught with a house full of guns, gets arrested, then his daddy's boss who has political connections intervenes, charges are "amended", kid is back out on the street. He hunts deer on his daddy's property, because I've seen him, and nothing is ever done, even though according to the judicial system, he should be locked up for breaking the law.
Things such as that happen everyday across this country. I believe in enforcing the laws on the book, and believe that if we did, we could stop some of the violence from happening. Instead, we let people out of jail who need to be locked up forever, and once out, they continue to do what they doing that caused them to get in trouble in the first place. We will never completely stop people from committing violent acts, because they are going to do so regardless of the weapon used, or the reason they do it. But, I think we can potentially keep some acts from happening by enforcing the laws on the books, and making certain that a person who needs to be in jail, stays in jail.
People killing one another has gone on since Abel and Cain, and will happen as long as there are people on this earth. Cain didn't use a gun to commit that murder, so to blame guns as the reason is useless. Lizzie Borden didn't use a gun, neither did that Pakistani woman who recently murdered 17 of her relatives by poisoning them. Guns are merely a tool, but because they are a very efficient tool, they come under more intense scrutiny than would an axe or a club. Guns aren't the problem, people are, and therefore the answer lies in people control, not gun control.........something that's easier said than done. I agree with all that, James. Well said! Sadly, in the political climate we now live in, the headlines are "26 Killed by Gun" and not "Countless Saved by Good Guy With Firearm".
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
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Is there any difference between a "dishonorable discharge" and "bad conduct discharge" when it comes to the ability to legally purchase a firearm? http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/devin-kelly-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.htmlKelly was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts of Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Stefanek said. Kelley received a bad conduct discharge, confinement for 12 months and a reduction in rank, she said. The Air Force did not provide a date of the discharge. Kelley purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio, a law enforcement official told CNN.
When Kelley filled out the background check paperwork at the store, he checked the box to indicate he didn't have disqualifying criminal history, the official said. He listed an address in Colorado Springs, Colorado when he bought the rifle, the official said.
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose. It was written to limit the power of government over the individual.
There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,777 Likes: 42 |
...if these mass shootings continue, there WILL be some new forms of gun control. You can take that to the bank!! It will happen, and there will be nothing that we can do about it. Horse [bleep]. Not if we stand fast and if it happens there IS something we can do about it. Read your Constitution and don't puss out. Sooner or later, the dimmies will gain congress and the Whitehouse. They will pass more gun legislation. They always have. We are gonna fight them. We always do. Liberal states are passing gun legislation with each session of their local congresses. The best we can do is move away to states that hold to the 2nd Amendment, if you live in one that doesn't.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,745 Likes: 5
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,745 Likes: 5 |
We can all give our opinions, and knock other posters for giving theirs, but one thing is for certain.......if these mass shootings continue, there WILL be some new forms of gun control. You can take that to the bank!! It will happen, and there will be nothing that we can do about it. It won't do any good, it won't stop the bad guys from killing, it will only make those who support it "feel good."
There are people who don't need access whatsoever to a firearm, but the problem is in determining who they are, and how to go about keeping them from getting one. For the most part, the laws on the books don't work because the judicial system either fails to act properly, or else the person obtains a gun illegally.
I'll give you an example......there is a law on the books that says a convicted felon cannot be in the possession of a firearm. My neighbor has a druggie son, a convicted felon. He gets caught with a house full of guns, gets arrested, then his daddy's boss who has political connections intervenes, charges are "amended", kid is back out on the street. He hunts deer on his daddy's property, because I've seen him, and nothing is ever done, even though according to the judicial system, he should be locked up for breaking the law.
Things such as that happen everyday across this country. I believe in enforcing the laws on the book, and believe that if we did, we could stop some of the violence from happening. Instead, we let people out of jail who need to be locked up forever, and once out, they continue to do what they doing that caused them to get in trouble in the first place. We will never completely stop people from committing violent acts, because they are going to do so regardless of the weapon used, or the reason they do it. But, I think we can potentially keep some acts from happening by enforcing the laws on the books, and making certain that a person who needs to be in jail, stays in jail.
People killing one another has gone on since Abel and Cain, and will happen as long as there are people on this earth. Cain didn't use a gun to commit that murder, so to blame guns as the reason is useless. Lizzie Borden didn't use a gun, neither did that Pakistani woman who recently murdered 17 of her relatives by poisoning them. Guns are merely a tool, but because they are a very efficient tool, they come under more intense scrutiny than would an axe or a club. Guns aren't the problem, people are, and therefore the answer lies in people control, not gun control.........something that's easier said than done. I agree with all that, James. Well said! Sadly, in the political climate we now live in, the headlines are "26 Killed by Gun" and not "Countless Saved by Good Guy With Firearm". I also agree with JamesJr. amd rockinbbar. The problem isn't the anti-gun person as you are never going to change their minds. It is the non-gun person that is ambivalent about firearms. When they stop "feeling safe" while at church, a concert, or wherever, you will see gun control and I doubt it will be pretty.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
I wouldn't concede so quickly. There are reasonable persons across the country, including in urban areas, that recognize the police cannot protect one from violence. They are first responders, not first defenders. As such, an armed populace is literally the only safer solution. Many, many people recognize that, especially in the two younger generations that have come to understand that the media is agenda-ized nearly all the time.
Older generations were taught to trust govt and media as we all worked together to build a great nation. Younger generations realize that such a vision is always undermined by the political class with the mainstream media being co-opted into propagandizing. I would not in any way take a Leftnik assumption that gun control will be passed. Actually, I encounter young people everyday who realize that they need to defend themselves because the govt apparatus won't do it for them.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,892 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,892 Likes: 6 |
I am a citizen of the United States as most of you are. I am not afraid of the Government because I am the Government.
I happen to believe that as citizens we should prove we are qualified to keep and bear arms. If we are not qualified we shouldn’t be allowed to have them. That’s where “well regulated militia” kicks in IMHO.
I am an elitist. There are a bunch of black and brown guys who should not have guns, but there are a bunch of white guys who shouldn’t have them either. The shooter in Texas and the one in Las Vegas are cases in point. Don’t tell me that deeper screening wouldn’t have brought up questions on these two shooters. No, it wouldn’t have stopped all, but it would stop some. Two points: You may think rightly or wrongly that "you are the government" now but it may not always be that way and it certainly may not be that way for your kids. Those "black and brown guys" you are talking about, by and large but not all, have communistic tendencies and may one day decide they would like to have those two farms of yours when and if they attain political majorities. Did you notice that a communist almost won the nomination for the presidency of the democratic party and it is coming to light now that he would have won it had he not been cheated? Remember the saying "democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner". If you think it can't happen here you are woefully ignorant of human history, the bulk of which has been spent under the heel of tyranny. What we have and take for granted in America is not the norm. Without the 2nd Amendment, liberty in this country has no chance.....ZERO! I'm an elitist too. I think that there should be some kind of "screening process" to pass in order to vote besides fogging a mirror. But it ain't gonna happen. What makes me think you might be a bull crapper about LEO experience is that if that were true, you should know better than anyone that laws are for the sane. What is the worst sanction the law can apply to a miscreant? Death correct? If a person reaches the point for whatever reason that he is ready and willing to die in order to commit a crime, the law loses all sanctioning ability and is therefore meaningless. The current killer was dishonorably discharged from the military and as I understand it such a person is not allowed to buy or own firearms just like a convicted felon. Other mass killers have passed background checks because they never had so much as a traffic ticket on their record. As a former LEO you should know that mental health like physical health is fluid.
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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BTW--two good denominations in the United States that are not part of the WCC are the Assemblies of God and the Southern Baptists.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,656 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,656 Likes: 12 |
So perhaps we should ask why an individual with a dishonorable discharge from the Military should be allowed to purchase a Modern Sporting Rifle? Perhaps we need a little more screening of folks? IT wasn't a dishonorable. It was a Bad Conduct Discharge. big difference
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Posts: 42,656 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,656 Likes: 12 |
I am a citizen of the United States as most of you are. I am not afraid of the Government because I am the Government
And an elitist too! Might we find your family name in Burke's Peerage then? GMAFB
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,989 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,989 Likes: 4 |
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns......and the govt. of course.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
I am a citizen of the United States as most of you are. I am not afraid of the Government because I am the Government. I have been a commissioned law enforcement officer and have seen many gun possessors who should have been prevented from having one.
It is time to stop this BS that is is us verses them. It is all of us together, and as citizens we need to say who can legitably have guns and who shouldn’t.
You like to write me off as a liberal. I have been a life member of the NRA since 1966. I am a a qualified Master shooter in High Power competition, Sharpshooter in pistol competition and I also shoot skeet and sporting clays.
I own two farms and have private rifle and pistol ranges set up on my land. I belong to two shooting clubs. I have three kids who hunt deer and I hunt deer, elk and upland birds every year.
I happen to believe that as citizens we should prove we are qualified to keep and bear arms. If we are not qualified we shouldn’t be allowed to have them. That’s where “well regulated militia” kicks in IMHO.
I am an elitist. There are a bunch of black and brown guys who should not have guns, but there are a bunch of white guys who shouldn’t have them either. The shooter in Texas and the one in Las Vegas are cases in point. Don’t tell me that deeper screening wouldn’t have brought up questions on these two shooters. No, it wouldn’t have stopped all, but it would stop some. You're the enemy of liberty and freedom, maybe because you don't understand it in your foolish myoptic view of self. You are not who many men fought and died for. GFY azzhole.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,848 Likes: 10 |
It was a BCD. Of course, since it was a DV charge he still should have been prohibited by the Lautenberg Amendment. But then again, there is no specific DV statute in the UCMJ, so it is entirely dependent on how the military reports it.
This is a loophole that could be fixed by one simple general order or directive that all discharges that are related to a DV incident are to be reported. A lot of times even guys who could be court martialed get a Chapter 10 (discharge in lieu of court martial) and a general discharge. And a general discharge can cover anything from someone who was injured or a hopeless frick up during Basic and cut loose pretty quick, to in the case of a Chapter 10, guys who may have done something fairly serious. In the Army, good order and discipline instead of punishment is the goal of the UCMJ. So if it is easier to cut someone loose, they’ll do it rather than waste resources.
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