Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 22 HP testing at range today

Thanks to Gary and JeffG, I was schooled in the process of making a reliable round in 22 HP.
As Gary said, Sellior and Bellot (SP) ammo is like a shotgun pattern. VERY unstable round.
The rest of this discovery post is in bold text and a photo.

Sellior and Bellot (SP) ammo is like a shotgun pattern. VERY unstable round. 50 yards, Marbles Peep sight.



I spoke with Gary in a PM specifically about his lead rounds that he casts. I scrubbed every bit of copper out of the barrel upon Gary's recommendation on my 1913 22 HP and boy oh boy did it bleed blue!



I contacted The Bullet Man in Montana and low/behold, he casts a 64 grain gas checked, lube .228 bullet. Boom! Bought 100 for $25 including shipping.



I loaded 10 test rounds, 19 grs of BLC-2, Lg Rifle primer and proceeded to the range today. The result from the first photo, compared to this photo is remarkable. Granted, I was looking for a closer grouping than the Sellior and Bellot, and I got those results at 50 yards. The first two shots were low, then the grouping started showing.



[b]Pleased with the results and great information from Gary, JeffG, I proceeded to use my Drill press CTS Case trimmer (.223 )to trim the brass to 2.045 and then chamfered, and steel-pin tumbled for 90 minutes.



Using mutliple sources and word of mouth (including Load Data website, which as been my "Go To" analysis along with 3 different manuals,) I decided to try another 10 rounds at 23.1 grains of BLC-2 for my next outing. I'm certain I can get these groups tighter with the 104 year old rifle! It sure is fun researching, testing in the field, etc. these old cartridges! My next outing I will chrono these rounds I made today. I'm looking for 2200 fps for this old bang stick, and no more!

Neat!

Nice work...my 22 HP from 1917 shoots those S&B loads wayyyy worse than yours...they'll hit the target sideways at 25 yards.

Gary's casted rounds did somewhat better, but still tumbled, whether with full power loads or 5 grains of Unique. It'll stabilize NO .224 bullet, save the 63 sierra, but even it makes a 1 foot group at 50 yards. All other .224 bullets hit the target sideways at any range. I scrubbed the hell out of the bore too.

I then found some .228 sisk bullets. Both 55 grain and 70 grain. Instant success...since my sisk bullets are in short supply, I may look into this "bullet man"...

I am on a mission to kill a deer with the 70 grain sisk bullets this year...passed a 2x2 mulie the other day and a doe whitetail this morning. Maybe tomorrow!

Inman, good luck on your hunt!
Agree on the sideways, you can see a couple in my first post picture target! S & L Tumbled like pre-67 AR-15 bullets! But hey, good brass after they're fired.
You can find Bullet Man Dan auctions for bullets on Gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/714763902

"T" let us know how you do! I like useing Imr 3031 in my 22HP

Great report! Thanks for tracking the details for us!

Had my 22HP to the range about a week ago for the first time. Tried .227 70 gr. Hornady Spire Pts. over 25 gr. of 3031. Terrible accuracy and 3 out of 4 split cases. I will be pulling the rest of the batch. Has anyone had success with Norma .228 71 gr. using 3031 or any other powder?

Jim, my load for the 22 HP is 70 gr Norma, 25.3 gr 3031 with CCI primer. At 50 yards on the bench I was about an inch and a half high and an inch and a half to the right, through the 1912 Malcolm scope. Right at a one inch group. Using the tang sight had the same one inch group. But, I had primers popping and we stuck a field gauge in it, and it closed, showing some head space issues. I still plan on using it one day this year trying for the Savage Slam, Joe.

Thanks Joe, I would certainly be happy with that accuracy. Not sure why my cases are splitting ( in the shoulder area ) They were older Imperial brass but looked to be only once fired. I will try annealing them.

Amazing how much copper can come out of some of these old barrels. One of the reasons I love foaming bore cleaners...

Good post, glad it started shooting well for you. I shoot cast bullets out of my 32-40's, but never out of anything else. Might have to give them a try.

That's what I used, a good foaming bore cleaner.

I use 3031 and H-4895 interchangeably in the HP- 23 grains 3031, 24 grains 4895, 70 grain bullets. Light-ish loads? Yes, but I doubt a deer will feel the difference of a couple grains of powder, and accuracy for me is better and brass lasts longer. Favorite bullet is the RWS H-Mantle 70 grain .228 (try finding them ), followed by Sisk 63 and 70 grain .228's. (Do I shoot those rare bullets willy-nilly at targets? Nope, just enough to sight in and then a handful to hunt with which go back into storage until the next year if they don't get used. Most of my jacketed bullet target shooting is with shortened Hornady 70's, plus a lot of cast bullets.)

For some reason BL-C2 never worked well for me.

I got promising results with CFE-223 and Varget in the .22HP this fall, and will pursue its use in future. I'll keep you posted.

Unless the cast bullet is carefully fitted to the throat (.0005" undersize or so) and the nose sized to just barely ride on the lands, and the alloy matched to the velocity (don't exceed the elastic limits of whichever alloy is employed), y'all won't get pleasing results with them. With Bullet Man's bullets, I got crappy results with 3031 and velocities over 2000fps. Best results were with SR-4759 and 2400 for "high" velocities around 1800-1900fps, and Unique and Bullseye for regular "low" velocities of around 11-1200 fps. (Which holds true for the bullets I cast for myself.) A wise man told me once that a bullet only has to make it as far as the target and with enough speed to make a hole in the paper. No sense in driving fast as long as accuracy is there.

Dan's bullets aren't terribly hard and as such not up to the stress of factory velocities, unless he's changed things since I last sampled them. The thing about jacking cast bullets up to 2500+fps is it can be done, but the resulting hard-as-sin alloy needed to achieve that precludes expansion, and the fit to the throat/bore better be friggin' perfect. They'll shatter if bone is hit (typical of hard cast bullets), otherwise they behave quite like FMJ bullets. That's why I draw the line at using cast .22 bullets for deer. Give me a 190-220 grain soft cast .30 bullet at 1800 fps, or better yet a larger/heavier caliber if cast bullet hunting perfection is the goal.

If Barnes would make a 50 or 55 grain TSX in .228 diameter, I would kiss their asses in the public square and give them two hours to draw a crowd.

Ha! That would be outstanding though wouldn't it?

Or the little 64 gr bonded bullet by Nosler, bumped up to .228" instead of .224" diameter.

This is a good thread. Thanks so much for documenting the loads and results. I need to do some more work with my 1913 .22 Hi Power.

Guy

Jim, all of my brass was reformed 30-30, it was annealed, Joe.

Annealing is a mandatory step in my reloading process. I typically re-use brass 5-7 times before re-applying heat to anneal.

Especially want to anneal if altering brass, such as when forming HP's from .30-30 brass. I don't bother when forming from .25-35 brass.

Apologies to all you Canucks, but Imperial .22HP brass doth truly sucketh. I wouldn't think of using anymore of that brass without annealing it.

Today has been a long day...


23 grains of IMR 3031 and 70 grain Sisk...at maybe 25 yards...bullet worked just fine.

Great Job! Congrads On the Nice Buck also! put this pic up in the 99 Kill Page! Gotta Love the 22HPs!