Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa CZ 458 ?

I had a line on a used 458 Rem, it fell through best I can tell.

Have to buy a gun in the next year or so for Alaska. I am not at all concerned on looks. Accuracy has to be decent. Reliability for big bears a must.

Is the synthetic stock on their guns worth the money? Or just buy the cheapest CZ and put an MC on it?

Any other input about affordable 458s, leaning hard to the lott and be able to run standard 458 in it most of the time... is welcome.

Good and bad on the CZ also welcome.

Thanks, and sorry about interrupting the African forum with an AK question.

Thanks, Jeff

Jeff,

The CZ's are big, solid, strong, dependable actions. I have owned a couple and they will feed anything you put in them. I did not like the factory triggers. The one I still have has the Number two upgrade from American Hunting rifles. One of the items Wayne changes is the factory trigger to a nice crisp one and adds a three position safety. The other downside to the CZ is they are heavy. The action is huge and perfect for a 505 Gibbs but really a little large for some rounds. However, you could probably put five 458 rounds down the magazine and close the bolt.

I like the Winchester Model 70s (or my left hand world the Montana Rifle version). People who own the Whitworths love them. Both of these options are readily available. this is an example this is a Whitworth listed on Guns International.

Whitworth

In regards to a Lott or Win Mag, if you find a rifle chambered in either one buy it and be happy. not enough difference between the two to worry about. Given the choice I would take a Lott, however would not even hesitate to buy a Win Mag.

The CZ is going to be heavy in the mountains or hunting moose in the thickets. The Winchester or the Whitworth will definitely be better to carry.

Have your considered a 375 H&H? Many more of potential rifles, lighter, less recoil, shoots a little flatter, etc.

I've had two CZ 550s and found them very clubby, but they work all the time. Unlike many I love the set triggers, probably because I've used set triggers for over 50 years. I can well understand why many guys don't like the CZ triggers, however.

My CZs were a 416 Rigby and a 458 Win.

I have also had Whitworths, two in 375 and a 458 Win. I far preferred carrying and using the Whitworths. They pointed much better for me and were "faster". The difference was like pointing your finger or pointing a baseball bat.

I have a mark X Mauser in458 win.(whitworth) . Much prefer it to any CZ I've ever handled,

I have a CZ 550 American Safari Magnum in 458 Lott. I like the rifle and, also unlike many, like the set trigger when it works right. I have no regrets that it doesn't have a brake or that it's in 458 Lott rather than 458 Winchester Magnum. Any you can put 5 rounds in the magazine and close the bolt. Now for a list of the negatives:

1. The CZ 550 rifles in the heavy recoiling cartridges have a reputation for cracking wood stocks if they don't have crossbolts. I had the action in mine glass bedded which the gunsmith said should work fine. I've had no problems with the stock so far. Given the choice, I'd probably go with a composite stock.

2. A screw became loose that holds the trigger to the action. First the gun discharged when I set the trigger (an unpleasant surprise). Then the gun started discharging when the bolt was closed (downright dangerous). I was going to change the trigger but the one Timney sent me didn't fit and they said it was the only one they made for my gun so, I put Lock Tite on the screw and hopefully won't have more problems.

3. CZ 550 rifles sometimes need a little work to make them feed smoothly. If I were going after dangerous game with mine, I'd probably have a little work done since feeding isn't as smooth as I'd like but it feeds well enough for the dangerous Whitetail Deer I'll be hunting with it this year (LOL). Now my Blaser R 93 feeds smooth as snot.

If you are open to a project rifle, I bought a CZ 550 375 on here a while back. The bolt was lost in delivery somehow. I'd sell the barreled action (minus bolt) for less than a bare action would run you if you're open to a project. The factory stock was cracked, but I picked up a B&C for it which is really well done. If that interests you, shoot me a PM and we can discuss details.

My plan was to send it to Wayne at AHR to put the finishing touches on. If you don't take it, that still might be in the cards in the near future.

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like its time to dump the CZ idea and look to whitworth etc...

Tarheelpwr, don't really want a project gun either at this time in my life. But as noted seems the CZ isn't where I should head anyway.

Jeff

My two cents: If you're happy with the Whitworth two position safety, blued steel & wood, then the Whitworths are definitely worth a look. Nice Mauser action and a little lighter than the Winchesters. The Winchester M70 has the 3 position safety but the Safari Expresses tend to be a little heavy in the barrel. If you're intent on the .458, the M70s might be less barrel heavy that if you went with the .375 or .416. If you insist on getting a .458 Lott, either the Whitworths or the M70s can be made into a Lott with little trouble (I believe).

I'd personally look for a stainless/synthetic M70 Classic in .375 H&H if I was hunting bears in AK. That's exactly what I used the last time I hunted Browns up there. The rifle is admittedly heavier than it needs to be with that large diameter barrel, but it shoots great and the stainless/synthetic is well worth it in Brown Bear country.

I have a 4 H shooter that lives in AK as a guide. I take his word, that a 375 in the wrong place, can be a bit on the light side. So I"ve written off that gun. Have a 338-378 in a #1 thats almost as big as one anyway...

Just want an stopping repeater with no questions asked.

Will look more for Whitworths. I don't like 3 position safety at all so I'd prefer not to end up with a 70... if at all possible.

I agree on SS/Synthetic. OTOH living there in AK in a few years I can probably figure out how to maintain a blued gun if need be.... salt bath nitride would be the first step. Everything costs though. LOL.

FIgure I could find a used 458 at some point, someone that didn't like the recoil or just bought for a single safari or such etc....

Well, based on your latest response, I believe you're on the right track with the Whitworths. Yes, you can coat the blued steel and yes you can find a synthetic stock to put on it. That will almost equate to an all-weather gun. Of course, like you say, a blued/wood stock rifle, properly cared for, can do just fine. Not like no one ever hunted before stainless rifles showed up. I understand also about your desire for a .458. I've got several .375s and my .416, but still have a hankering for a .458 someday. I'd get the Lott as well, or have it converted to the Lott, just because! Good luck in your search!

Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that the CZ set trigger can be adjusted so that the factory trigger becomes a single stage trigger and you can set it for a hunting pull weight of 3 lbs. or so. I'm also positive that you can get a synthetic stock for them as well, so I wouldn't necessarily write the CZ off. The action and barrel might weigh a bit more than the Whitworth, but I wouldn't think it would be that much more.

My brown bear guide had a CZ 458 Lott with the barrel cut to 20". He used the open sights. Pretty slick package.

I have a ZKK 602 re-chambered to 450 Ackley. I think it feeds better now than when it was a .458. Barrel is pretty light due to the big hole in it so to me, at least, it doesn't feel any heavier than the Whitworth. CZs are pretty tough and normally shoot well.

My earlier comments were about the CZ550. I have no experience with the 602.

For all practical purposes a stainless steel 375 H&H (or Ruger) with a composite stock would be the better choice, but the heart wants what the heart wants, it is why I hunt with a 470 double in Africa.

If I wanted a nice wood stocked 458, an AHR CZ would be up on the list.

If I wanted a utility stopping rifle, I’d get a 416 Ruger Alaskan or similar.

The Ruger 416 would be an excellent choice, IMO.

I bought one dead-nuts cheap on line when they first became generally available, just to try one out. It was a T H M P E R !!
I passed it along to a younger fearless buyer. With its 416 Rigby/Rem mag ballistics and 400gr bullets you would be well served.

Good idea, Mooner.

Interesting comments on the stopper stuff.

I tend to trust my guide buddy who has been guiding the big bears spring and fall for enough years now that I can't recall how many, over 10... mostly with a 338 Win mag but he has made the comment that 45 cal is very obviously the one that does the best.

That said he now carries a 416 Ruger that was a tip.... but he would have preferred 45.... But he shot his own big bear with his 338 and said after that one, he'd never use the 338 agian. LOL.

Its all fine until its not. And I've never seen an issue with a bullet to wide.

And now all this and I get an offer to buy a 338 Lapua at a pretty cheap price... wants and needs.. may have to buy the Lapua and put the 458 off another 6 months or so.

I can't comment first hand on the stopping ability between a .416 and a .458, but I personally wouldn't hesitate with either.

I like the CZ's. They are just big and heavy. Riding around in a Land Rover, I'm sure they are great. Crawling through Alaskan brush with 10#'s of gun and 25" of barrel, maybe not so much. Chop the barrel at 20" and put it in a decent synthetic and it would probably be great.

I might be tempted to find a PF or classic M70 in 458 and do the same to it. I like M70 triggers and likely more stock choices inletted for a Win M70 .

I've loved the 416 Rem mags I've shot, both 700s... but I hear Rems suck... LOL. Would not hesitate if I found one of those under a grand I suspect. Good luck there.

But if I gotta pay more, may as well get more. 458 wins are not hard in the recoil area, while I hear the extra speed of the Lott sucks. LOL.

Rost - I enjoy your posts. Have you shot one of the great bears? Just wondering.

I'm a fan of the good ol' Rem 700 push feed, and how well it works. Action is big enough to take a pretty danged big cartridge too.

Thanks, Guy

Well known Alaska Peninsula outfitter Dick Gunlogson, retired now, and all of his bear guides carried .338 WM Model 70s and shot 300 grain Winchester ammo in preference to all other choices. Worked or im. I don't think the 300 grain is still available in factory ammo, but other bullets will do.. I like the .416 idea but I really think anything from .338 up will work if properly bulleted. BTW the .378 Waatherby is a bear thumper.

My CZ550 in 458Lott handled all loads well and I have a new extra trigger as I replaced mine with aftermarket and an Ed Lapour safety.

To All,

As an "off the wall" suggestion for a STOPPER rifle & that is suitable for anything that is currently alive on Planet Earth, you may want to consider a Model 760 Remington pump-rifle converted by JES in .400 Brown-Whelen Improved.
(I just bought a .30-06 Model 760 with badly pitted barrel, that I bought for "peanuts", that soon will be headed to Jessie to be rebored/rechambered to ..400B-WI. = The .400 is CHEAP to load, as it's .30-06 based & will do 400 grain JSP/solids in .411" at up to 2350FPS, using the same bullets as the "old-school" .405 WCF)
The .400B-WI is the "ballistic twin" of the .404 Jeffery & several other "African calibers".

Maximum killing power & EFFICIENCY in a .30-06-based case is the ,400B-WI's forte. Also, it "pushes" rather than "kicks your head off".
(Consider also the quick 2D,3RD,4TH or even the 10TH shots, with an "extended magazine", too.)

yours, satx

One nice thing about the CZ .458 Winchester: The magazine box is longer than a Model 70. That means that you can hand load banded bullets (Barnes TSX) with the crimp at one of the more rearward bands. This gives you a greater case capacity than otherwise, eliminating the advantage of the Lott. The 458 throat is very long, BTW.

With the Model 70, you can do that trick only with shorter bullets. I have loaded the Barnes 350 grain TSX to 2700 fps, with no signs of pressure at all. That makes it sort of a 30-06 on steroids, 3000 foot pounds of energy at 300 yards. I think that would stop a bear.

I would not fool with the Lott. With equal pressures, you only get about 70 fps over the Winchester.

Don't believe all the voodoo about the .458 Winchester having too little case capacity, or compressed powders. With AA2230 it's easy to get 2200 fps with 500 grain bullets without the Barnes groove trick.

If it were me, though, I'd pick a .375 H&H. While I've never hunted brown bear, I've killed a handful of heavier animals with both the .375 and .458. They seemed about the same and the .375 is better for longer ranges. I used 300 grain North fork soft points in the .375. Two I recovered from a Cape buffalo were perfectly mushroomed and weighed in excess of 290 grains. For the .458, I prefer the 450 grain Barnes TSX at 2200 because of lower recoil than a 500 grain bullet.

NO, I have not shot one. I just go by what my buddy that is in on killing probably 5-7 of them a year tells me.

Appreciate all the input though! 458 is where my mind is.

Some folks are a bit sensitive to recoil too it seems, I don't enjoy it but certainly can deal with it. I've shot the 458 Win enough to know it recoils less than a 378 wtby, which is the only round I"ve said I"d never own...

I won't be shooting long range on a bear. Well if I do, it would be with my 50. LOL

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...-win-mag-bolt-rifle.cfm?gun_id=100907165


Just get this.

A 458 Lott without a brake is about the same as a 378 Weatherby without a brake.

What you really need is a 460 Weatherby.

A 460 Weatherby Magnum Off The Bench

You can load a Model 70 .458 with 500gn TSX's to 3.552" over 72gn of AA2230 for just over 2100fps in a standard 22 inch barrel.
If you like that performance, you can get a spare bolt stop for a few bucks and grind it short so that the bolt will withdraw to accommodate a full 3.6" OAL and fit an inexpensive .375 magazine box.

Although the leade is long in the .458, bullets do tend to like a jump for best accuracy which is why so many 350 and 400 grain bullets are so accurate in this chambering. There are handloaders that seat these bullets out to the longer OAL in the CZ and BRNO rifles, that is not new, but one thing that is often missing from the comparison of the CZ and the Model 70 is handling characteristics. The CZ is a terrific buy if you like it and the magazine capacity is a "warm and fuzzy" if you believe you "need" it. After using and handling both on many occasions, I went for the Model 70 for which I have had quite a few as I type this, Whenever I let one go, I regret it and start shopping again. Never felt like that with the CZ and I have had the opportunity to buy them for half what the public pays. Personnel preference? Certainly, but that is a road we all must travel.

The animals most hunters use these rifles on are not feeling very well once hit properly. "Stopping Rifle" is a good and very accurate phrase for this cartridge. A .458 is the ultimate sedative.
John

Those .460 Loads are light. Full power loads behave differently from what is indicated in this video.
John

Jeff,

Just a comment on the CZ 550 factory set triggers. Have used both the factory triggers and Timneys with no problem, either in African dust or Alaskan wet. But with the factory trigger I do what somebody else already mentioned, adjust so the set feature goes away. This is really simple, as I recall just adjusting the primary pull to around 3 pounds. Have been using both my 9.3x62 and .416 Rigby CZ's that way for 15 years now with zero problems.

I also much prefer the CZ safety to either Model 70 or Ruger Hawkeye safeties.