Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Is the 40 SW dead?

with penetration tests and expanded diameters being about the same with some of the most popular 9mm and 40SW bullets and loads, will we soon see an end to manufacturers producing pistols for the 40SW? For instance the new Gen5 glocks are 9mm but no 40's have been released, there is a separate thread indicating that Taurus is dropping the 40 from their line. Is the 40 headed to the scrap heap?

9mm Horn 124 gr JHP-XTP 90249: 1102 f/s; 14.6" pen; 0.54" expanded diameter
9mm Horn 147 gr JHP-XTP 9028: 988 f/s; 15.2" pen; 0.56" expanded diameter
.40 S&W Horn 155 gr JHP-XTP 9132: 1091 f/s; 14.3" pen; 0.57" expanded diameter
.40 S&W Horn 180 gr JHP-XTP 9136: 966 f/s; 14.8" pen, 0.66" expanded diameter
.45 ACP Horn 185 gr JHP-XTP 9090: 912 f/s, 16.7" pen, 0.57" expanded diameter
.45 ACP Horn 200 gr JHP-XTP 9112: 844 f/s, 18.7" pen, 0.54" expanded diameter
.45 ACP Horn +P 230 gr JHP-XTP 9096: 881 f/s; 15.6" pen, 0.72" expanded diameter

Will it go the way of the .45 GAP or .357 Sig ? Never. Just because some top tier agency doesn't issue it to the rank and file doesn't mean it isn't a proven killer. It is too effective a caliber to regulate to the dust bin.

I doubt it. I can't see agencies like Alaska State Troopers dropping the 40 for 9's. IMO

I'm not arguing with you krupp, but consumerism is weird--products that deserve to be popular on their merits don't necessarily survive.


With the .40 S&W, it's hard for me to figure out why it hasn't been more popular/successful. A few guesses would include:

1. Recoil. People buy it, intending it as a step down from the .45 ACP but are disappointed in how much recoil there is. The .40 is a snappy pistol. Not unmanageable, but I think it's more than people are expecting a .40 to be (and that's the fault of consumers, not the round). Women who don't like the .45 don't find that the .40 is the solution.

2. Initial Accuracy When Testing. This ties in with recoil, but I thought I'd address it separately. The "everyday Joe" will shoot a 9mm better than a .40 S&W. When a few guys get together to do some plinking and one of the guys is in the market for his first handgun, he'll likely not want a revolver of any flavor, and he won't agree to start with a .22lr. He wants a self-defense gun. He's likely already narrowed his cartridge choice to one of the Big Three: 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. As the day of target practice continues, if his buddies even have a .40 for him to consider, he won't shoot it as well as the 9mm's available for him to try. If he ignores his accuracy results and just wants a "big gun" he'll likely go straight to a .45 ACP.

I think this scenario is more common than we realize: In the world of gun shopping, the .40 ends up as a 'tweener--that football player who is too big to be a linebacker but too small to play on the defensive line. So it goes with the .40 S&W...

3. Performance. As the OP mentioned, 9mm has made some huge strides over the years. It's not the same 9mm that the FBI declared ineffective in the wake of Miami 1986. The 9mm reputation (whether well-deserved or not) is that it is an effective self-defense round.

4. Ammo Cost. Brass-cased ammo for the 9mm can be shipped to your door for $9.29 per box. That means a lot to the bulk of consumers.

5. Ammo Capacity. Right or wrong, a lot of Everyday Joe's are impressed by the higher ammo capacity of a 9mm over the .40. More is better, right? For many, practicing regularly with whatever gun/cartridge you have never enters the picture. They just want a gun that carries a lot of bullets.

6. Law Enforcement Use. It appears that many agencies have gone away from the .40 S&W. That's probably due to combinations of #1-#5 above. The govt wants cheaper ammo. They can't "afford" to practice. Many cops are not gun guys and don't practice on their own. So, the .40 becomes as unattractive to LEA's as it does for average shooters. When Joe Public hears that LEA's are ditching the .40, he concludes that the round is "bad" and refuses to buy one.

In raising these points, I'm NOT saying that I necessarily agree with them. I'm simply addressing them as the perceptions that have led to the demise of the .40 S&W.

Well, that's my two cents. I'm sure I'll get change back...

I'd say it may have a case of the sniffles at the worst. Any number of manufacturers still make them. There are plenty on the used market. Ammo is still a Fleet Farm staple. They even have it on free standing displays. It's still a popular round.

To find a properly unpopular .40 cal pistol cartridge, go back to 1878. The 38 WCF sold very well in its day, its day is just long since over. This caused me no small amount of annoyance before the take off of Cowboy Action shooting. The two I have are among my favorite shooters.

Ask any Cabela's Library manager. Their national inventory of .40 S&W is way over stocked. See what they will offer. Nothing. They don't want them.

Maybe as a favor to a good customer trading guns. Maybe.
That's what my local Cabela's Library Manager told me.

The market is stagnant due to the proliferation of cheap police trade-ins. As long as people can buy a perfectly functional pistol for $300 and change, there will be little demand for a new gun costing $550+ in the same caliber.

There is plenty of high-performance 40 ammo available for those who appreciate its versatility.

Ui sold my last one in 2008

Its interesting to see those tout the advancements in the bullet design of the 9mm to make them now having "made huge strides over the years".

I don't think that those same ammo companies applied their improvements only to the 9mm. Seems like .40 ammo has" made even huger strides over the years"

This is true. Mainly bullets for the .45 ACP that will expand well at 700-750fps. Years ago that did not happen.

Of course .051" does make a difference already.

JB deigned the .45 ACP to put down horses too. You know way back then.

Think Calvery

^^^This^^^

It's funny because 9mm is easier to shoot but I'm more accurate with a 40 S&W? Crazy how that works.

Steel on target. So long as you can do that, cartridge is irrelevant. Within reason.

An excellent, well thought out assessment.

It was the darling for a decade.

Now it isn't.

In another decade or two people will go retro and exclaim how great the 10mm Special was/is.




Travis

Yep, Waders wins the chicken dinner.

The 1994-2004 assault weapons ban with its 10 round magazine limitation played a role in the popularity of the .40 S&W. The Wondernines had lost their edge in ammo capacity and the trend was to go bigger. The same trend would occur if a ban was put in place today.

The .40 S&W gained a lot of momentum in those years, and combined with being an effective round in the first place, will be around for a long time.

I see lots of used Glock 22s and 23s for sale everywhere i go

Sarcasm here. But maybe the 5.7 and 22 TCM will surpass the 9mm with the next generation.

Those of us who have been around awhile have also seen surplus 9mm's, 10mm's, and sundry 38.357 revolvers clog the used market.

When the FBI releases flatulence, lots of local agencies sniff it, analyze it via gas chromatography and then empty the coffers in an attempt to procure FBI Magic Beans.