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If you were building a new build using a custom action and not a reworked factory action what are the top contenders in 2017?
Are there any without going titanium any lighter?
Some I'm considering are Defiance and Curtis axiom.
Thanks
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Defiance, Bighorn, Borden, Surgeon, BAT, all make great actions! Borden and Defiance will likely be your lightest without going TI
Extractors can be different depending on maker some have 1 pc bolts others 2 pc just depends what your looking for!
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Defiance, Bighorn, Borden, Surgeon, BAT, all make great actions! Borden and Defiance will likely be your lightest without going TI +1 The Defiance Rebel with some of the lightening options is my preferred platform followed by Borden for price=value and weight. The PTG/Stiller actions are a fair price too if you want to start on the economy minded side of clones.
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I like Defiance quite a bit - lots of options, well made, quality materials, tight tolerances, etc.
I have one of their Rebel actions with the CRF option and am impressed with it. It has some other bells and whistles but their CRF is well designed and executed.
You mention Titanium, you might take a look at the Fierce Ti Edge which is a Sako 85 clone. They offer complete rifles but will also sell you an action as a component.
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If going Ti I'd be looking at the Lone Peak Arms Razor action, really a nice action and decent price.
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Defiance, Bighorn, Borden, Surgeon, BAT, all make great actions! Borden and Defiance will likely be your lightest without going TI
Extractors can be different depending on maker some have 1 pc bolts others 2 pc just depends what your looking for! This ^^^^^^^^^^^ is the correct answer! PERIOD.
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Whatever has integral rails or bases.. none of that attach bases with screws nonsense.
And preferably with integral recoil lug as well.
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Whatever has integral rails or bases.. none of that attach bases with screws nonsense.
lol.....Some folks might not need or want the industrial looking overkill tacti-cool Picatinny system on a hunting rig. Re; 700 clone, D'Arcy Echols elected for a Borden to build his daughters .260 > anyone who knows the exceptionally high stds of Echols & Co. would conclude..' enough said'. If one has any doubts, D'Arcy has also personally indicated the high std of a Borden.
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Borden
I have a Timberline & Alpine action. They are exceptional.
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I like Defiance quite a bit - lots of options, well made, quality materials, tight tolerances, etc.
I have one of their Rebel actions with the CRF option and am impressed with it. It has some other bells and whistles but their CRF is well designed and executed.
You mention Titanium, you might take a look at the Fierce Ti Edge which is a Sako 85 clone. They offer complete rifles but will also sell you an action as a component. You can also have Defiance put whatever serial number on the action you want, too.
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Whatever has integral rails or bases.. none of that attach bases with screws nonsense.
lol.....Some folks might not need or want the industrial looking overkill tacti-cool Picatinny system on a hunting rig. Re; 700 clone, D'Arcy Echols elected for a Borden to build his daughters .260 > anyone who knows the exceptionally high stds of Echols & Co. would conclude..' enough said'. If one has any doubts, D'Arcy has also personally indicated the high std of a Borden. Picatinnys are not needed, but handy if you change scopes often. However, My Sakos have their own dovetail mounts My double square bridge Mausers have their own dovetail mounts My Steyr has their owns dovetail mount My Tikka T3 has its own dovetail mount Drilling the receiver for a mount is a cost cutting measure..
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Defiance, Bighorn, Borden, Surgeon, BAT, all make great actions! Borden and Defiance will likely be your lightest without going TI +1 The Defiance Rebel with some of the lightening options is my preferred platform followed by Borden for price=value and weight. +1 I have a couple of Defiance Rebels. Most if not all of the lightening options are included in the base price. I just received an LA that weighs 27oz, and my short action was a bit over 24oz if I remember correctly.
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Picatinnys are not needed, but handy if you change scopes often...
Drilling the receiver for a mount is a cost cutting measure..
Drilled receivers allow an owner flexibility to change between mounting systems. (while changing scopes in the past , at times I also changed the mount) and for the person who chooses to get custom snug machined-fit mount fasteners and equal quality fit mounts to team up with a precision action, it aint one of the cheap options.
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Without getting to fondle any , is there any that are buttery smooth?
I have one rifle built on a stiller and it's far from smooth.
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Without getting to fondle any , is there any that are buttery smooth?
I have one rifle built on a stiller and it's far from smooth. If you want "buttery smooth" in a component action, MRC 1999, hands down. The two LH MRC 1999 rifles I have are hands down the smoothest actions in the house. Have a new MRC 1999 LH SA action sitting a the local toy store to pick up on Saturday for another build. And, did I mention that they are available Left Hand ? Having said that, my Stiller TAC300 action smoothed out a lot after 500 cycles of the bolt. Slathered the bolt with oil. Put 100 cycles on it. Wipe oil off bolt and action. Rinse/repeat 5 times. The bolt fluting will look two tone. But, once most of the black finish wears off the contact areas, it smooths out pretty well. Not like the MRC. But definitely "mo betta"...
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The MRC actions where know for gritty actions in the beginning.. they where sold as gunsmith ready, not many civilians got that memo when they purchased them giving them a bad rep.
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Picatinnys are not needed, but handy if you change scopes often...
Drilling the receiver for a mount is a cost cutting measure..
Drilled receivers allow an owner flexibility to change between mounting systems. (while changing scopes in the past , at times I also changed the mount) and for the person who chooses to get custom snug machined-fit mount fasteners and equal quality fit mounts to team up with a precision action, it aint one of the cheap options. We could agree to disagree A double squared mauser fitted for Talley mounts, I dont see the need for flexibility of changing mounting systems in the future. And getting custom made bases precision fitted to a "round bar" is expensive... I´ll give you that! However the action manufacturer should have done it right the first time. Machining the action for a integral mounts and recoil lug does not take a lot of extra time or expense in materials. Most choose to cut cost.. There is a long way up to a $4-5000 M98 action.
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The MRC actions where know for gritty actions in the beginning.. they where sold as gunsmith ready, not many civilians got that memo when they purchased them giving them a bad rep. Just picked up my first early (~2003?) MRC raw action this afternoon... Yes... Very rough compared to the late model rifles I referenced above.
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A double squared mauser fitted for Talley mounts, I dont see the need for flexibility of changing mounting systems in the future. .
I prefer smaller objective dia. scopes mounted lower than Talley height. so greater flexibility in scope mount choices is important to me. the action manufacturer should have done it right the first time.
Plenty guys are satisfied with a drilled custom action, meaning Borden and others are doing it right, though I accept no customer maker can please everybody.
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Without getting to fondle any , is there any that are buttery smooth?
I have one rifle built on a stiller and it's far from smooth. Borden actions are one of the smoothest I've ever cycled!
Last edited by Ackleyfan; 12/09/17.
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Without getting to fondle any , is there any that are buttery smooth?
I have one rifle built on a stiller and it's far from smooth. Borden actions are one of the smoothest I've ever cycled! Both of my Borden's are like butter.
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Both of my Borden's are like butter.
My Timberline was very rough. It took a lot of polishing to smooth it up.
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i have been around three borden actions two of my own and a friends....all are extremely smooth
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I bought 2 more Defiance actions, they are quality pieces. I would have tried a Borden action but he wanted an extra $300 (If I remember correctly) for a CM action vs a 416 stainless action. He was building them from 18-8 or 17-4 but then switched to 416 which is probably the most machinable of the stainless steels but not necessarily the strongest. Glen made me several CM actions with no bump in price. I would like to try a Borden, I just have to decide I don't mind a 416 action.
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I bought 2 more Defiance actions, they are quality pieces. I would have tried a Borden action but he wanted an extra $300 (If I remember correctly) for a CM action vs a 416 stainless action. He was building them from 18-8 or 17-4 but then switched to 416 which is probably the most machinable of the stainless steels but not necessarily the strongest. Glen made me several CM actions with no bump in price. I would like to try a Borden, I just have to decide I don't mind a 416 action. The first actions were 15-5 not sure how many were made before he switched! I think BAT are made of 17-4.
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Whatever has integral rails or bases...And preferably with integral recoil lug as well. I chose the Defiance Deviant because of the integral rail and lug, the mini 16 extractor (as opposed to a Sako style) and the plethora of options available at no extra charge. They also told me that if I didn't like the action for any reason at any time I could return it on their dime and they would make any mods I wanted. It is a pretty smooth action to boot. I got a nice discount on a group buy so it was a no brainer. I couldn't be happier.
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Whatever has integral rails or bases...And preferably with integral recoil lug as well. I chose the Defiance Deviant because of the integral rail and lug, the mini 16 extractor (as opposed to a Sako style) and the plethora of options available at no extra charge. They also told me that if I didn't like the action for any reason at any time I could return it on their dime and they would make any mods I wanted. It is a pretty smooth action to boot. I got a nice discount on a group buy so it was a no brainer. I couldn't be happier. Hope you are enjoying that Defiance. What did you end up using it for?
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6.5 SAUM 26" sendero contour Brux with brake, in an Edge fill McMillan A5.
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I would like to see a double square bridge mauser machined for claw mounts. Satterlee does this but the actions are more than most of my rifles. Most actions will smooth up with some polishing and cycling so the out of the box feel isn't that critical to me. Actions with a false lug or rail like a Winchester will be smoother usually or at least after polishing or honing. The Mausinfield is an interesting action and looks to be ideal for a big game rifle. It can have the Savage lug if you want a switch barrel. I think a best buy is a barreled action from Shilen. The current DGA is a Stiller with some improvements and the Remage lug option.
Last edited by Tejano; 12/16/17.
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6.5 SAUM 26" sendero contour Brux with brake, in an Edge fill McMillan A5. Those are all nice components, none of which are a custom action.
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I bought 2 more Defiance actions, they are quality pieces. I would have tried a Borden action but he wanted an extra $300 (If I remember correctly) for a CM action vs a 416 stainless action. He was building them from 18-8 or 17-4 but then switched to 416 which is probably the most machinable of the stainless steels but not necessarily the strongest. Glen made me several CM actions with no bump in price. I would like to try a Borden, I just have to decide I don't mind a 416 action. I understand steel grades. What is your aversion to 416 as long as the action performs satisfactorily?
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6.5 SAUM 26" sendero contour Brux with brake, in an Edge fill McMillan A5. Those are all nice components, none of which are a custom action. He’s using a Defiance Deviant action.
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Picatinnys are not needed, but handy if you change scopes often...
Drilling the receiver for a mount is a cost cutting measure..
Drilled receivers allow an owner flexibility to change between mounting systems. (while changing scopes in the past , at times I also changed the mount) and for the person who chooses to get custom snug machined-fit mount fasteners and equal quality fit mounts to team up with a precision action, it aint one of the cheap options. We could agree to disagree A double squared mauser fitted for Talley mounts, I dont see the need for flexibility of changing mounting systems in the future. And getting custom made bases precision fitted to a "round bar" is expensive... I´ll give you that! However the action manufacturer should have done it right the first time. Machining the action for a integral mounts and recoil lug does not take a lot of extra time or expense in materials. Most choose to cut cost.. There is a long way up to a $4-5000 M98 action. Who did your double square bridge mauser?
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I like both my Pierce CM and Ti models. I've had 3 Stillers and mine were smooth. The Bordens are very nice. I've used several brands of BR receivers. Presently I have a couple Bats, but prefer the Kelbly Panda for BR. I've had Farley,Benchmaster, Old DGA Shilen, the old receiver by Glen Harrison in Washington State.
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6.5 SAUM 26" sendero contour Brux with brake, in an Edge fill McMillan A5. Those are all nice components, none of which are a custom action. He’s using a Defiance Deviant action. I see I spoke out of ignorance. Apologies to Sambo. Thank you to Kimber7 for correcting me.
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I've used Defiance, Borden, Stiller and Pierce on various rifles and, at this stage in the game, Defiance would be my choice for a 700-style action.
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Butchlambert: Its a pair of BRNO ZG-47.. I´m using Alaska Arms mounts instead of Talleys.
But if I did not find these, I would have gone custom M98 instead.
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Been out of town for cataract surgery. Alaska Arms makes nice rings. I have one set for my CZ550 in 458 Lott and another pair on my 416 Rigby on a mod17 Enfield. This is my Enfield in work. It uses the CZ type scope base.
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Been out of town for cataract surgery. Alaska Arms makes nice rings. I have one set for my CZ550 in 458 Lott and another pair on my 416 Rigby on a mod17 Enfield. This is my Enfield in work. It uses the CZ type scope base.
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I bought 2 more Defiance actions, they are quality pieces. I would have tried a Borden action but he wanted an extra $300 (If I remember correctly) for a CM action vs a 416 stainless action. He was building them from 18-8 or 17-4 but then switched to 416 which is probably the most machinable of the stainless steels but not necessarily the strongest. Glen made me several CM actions with no bump in price. I would like to try a Borden, I just have to decide I don't mind a 416 action. I understand steel grades. What is your aversion to 416 as long as the action performs satisfactorily? 416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.
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i bought the early gunsmith mrc action and when done is very smooth the only thing is they are a little heavy
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416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.
416R will gall a bit easier than chrome moly but it won’t gall “easily”. I have several M70’s that are all 416 unlike Remington’s where the bolt is CM, and none of my M70’s have galled because I keep the lugs greased. They’re also some of the slickest actions I have, the rumor that they’re not as smooth as CM isn’t true. I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years ago I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all. I really, really hate CM!
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416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.
416R will gall a bit easier than chrome moly but it won’t gall “easily”. I have several M70’s that are all 416 unlike Remington’s where the bolt is CM, and none of my M70’s have galled because I keep the lugs greased. They’re also some of the slickest actions I have, the rumor that they’re not as smooth as CM isn’t true. I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all. I really, really hate CM! Melonite will cure your CM rusting. A CM bolt in a SS receiver is the way to go. It is smoother and galls less.
Last edited by butchlambert1; 12/25/17.
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Guys, this thread had me go look at my Model 70 EW. Trued and rebarreled with a Hart in .270 and McMillan Featherweight stock, this thing 7s super smooth and shoots great. One lug has light ridges that a finger nail will feel. Never had an issue on opening or closing the bolt and it is smoother operating than the 6 other Model 70's that I have. I have a pre 64 that has ridges as well. Question is when do machine marks constitute gallling and when is galling considered a problem?
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416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.
I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years ago I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all.
I really, really hate CM! No, 4140 CM is stronger than 416 SS at ANY temperature. 416 is just inadequately strong at low temperatures. I have taken properly cerakoted rifles to Alaska where they were in small boats and soaked with salt spray. They never got more than just a good wipe-down. Nary a trace of rust on either rifle. One is a Pre-64 model 70 in 300 H&H and the other a Remington Mountain rifle in 260. CM was good enough for making rifles for 100+ years. The ONLY reason I can see to use 416 SS on an action is if A: you just like silver rifles or B: you are too cheap to do any metal finish on it. Butch is right about the black nitride. I have lugged Glocks all over North America with very little pampering- not even a trace of rust. My Defiance rifle is also nitrided and it showing no rust either. It gets drug through some horrific brush but has not been in salt water yet.
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