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Originally Posted by Reloder28
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
I bought 2 more Defiance actions, they are quality pieces. I would have tried a Borden action but he wanted an extra $300 (If I remember correctly) for a CM action vs a 416 stainless action. He was building them from 18-8 or 17-4 but then switched to 416 which is probably the most machinable of the stainless steels but not necessarily the strongest. Glen made me several CM actions with no bump in price. I would like to try a Borden, I just have to decide I don't mind a 416 action.



I understand steel grades. What is your aversion to 416 as long as the action performs satisfactorily?



416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.


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i bought the early gunsmith mrc action and when done is very smooth the only thing is they are a little heavy


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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.


416R will gall a bit easier than chrome moly but it won’t gall “easily”. I have several M70’s that are all 416 unlike Remington’s where the bolt is CM, and none of my M70’s have galled because I keep the lugs greased. They’re also some of the slickest actions I have, the rumor that they’re not as smooth as CM isn’t true.

I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years ago I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all.

I really, really hate CM!

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Originally Posted by Crow hunter
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.


416R will gall a bit easier than chrome moly but it won’t gall “easily”. I have several M70’s that are all 416 unlike Remington’s where the bolt is CM, and none of my M70’s have galled because I keep the lugs greased. They’re also some of the slickest actions I have, the rumor that they’re not as smooth as CM isn’t true.

I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all.

I really, really hate CM!



Melonite will cure your CM rusting. A CM bolt in a SS receiver is the way to go. It is smoother and galls less.

Last edited by butchlambert1; 12/25/17.
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Guys, this thread had me go look at my Model 70 EW. Trued and rebarreled with a Hart in .270 and McMillan Featherweight stock, this thing 7s super smooth and shoots great. One lug has light ridges that a finger nail will feel. Never had an issue on opening or closing the bolt and it is smoother operating than the 6 other Model 70's that I have. I have a pre 64 that has ridges as well.
Question is when do machine marks constitute gallling and when is galling considered a problem?

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Originally Posted by Crow hunter
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
416 has a tendency to gall really easy. It's also not as strong as CM. Not sure what is so good about it that we are making so many actions out of it. I guess guys are lazy or cheap and don't want to pay for any metal finish on their rifles.



I live in Mississippi where you can watch CM rust as it sits in front of you. A few years ago I decided to build a heavy 6.5x47L and couldn’t find a readily available stainless M700 action so I violated my strict “no chrome moly, ever” rule and built it on a CM action. I reasoned that the cerakote would be good enough for a rifle that wouldn’t be exposed to much weather. Nope, I still got rust in the lug raceways where the cerakote wore. Now I really mean it, no chrome moly EVER! It’s inferior and in 2017 we have better stuff than 100 year old steel formulations that rust when you look at them. The story that 416’s weaker than CM is only true in extreme cold temperatures and it’s only marginally so, it’s not enough to matter at all.

I really, really hate CM!



No, 4140 CM is stronger than 416 SS at ANY temperature. 416 is just inadequately strong at low temperatures. I have taken properly cerakoted rifles to Alaska where they were in small boats and soaked with salt spray. They never got more than just a good wipe-down. Nary a trace of rust on either rifle. One is a Pre-64 model 70 in 300 H&H and the other a Remington Mountain rifle in 260. CM was good enough for making rifles for 100+ years. The ONLY reason I can see to use 416 SS on an action is if A: you just like silver rifles or B: you are too cheap to do any metal finish on it.

Butch is right about the black nitride. I have lugged Glocks all over North America with very little pampering- not even a trace of rust. My Defiance rifle is also nitrided and it showing no rust either. It gets drug through some horrific brush but has not been in salt water yet.


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