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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,372 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,372 Likes: 18 |
So I am thinking about getting another rifle to be my truck gun at least all winter and spring while I am calving out heifers. Going to want cut barrel down to 16.5-18”, and will be using it on coyotes and hogs from up close to probably 400yds. Thinking of 223, 243, or 6.5 creedmoor and wondering which one is going to be affected the least with that barrel length? Thanks I have 35+ years of chrono data in my notebook, and the cartridge that seems the least affected by barrel length is the 7mm-08. Back in the 80's in two different articles in different gun rags the authors sawed off 7mm-08 bbls in one and two inch increments. I believe they chose the 7mm-08 randomly, rather than by design, but both rifles showed surprisingly small loss of velocity as the bbl was cut shorter.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,646 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,646 Likes: 38 |
The 223 of those listed, I'd have to go 308 Winchester in a good bolt gun and work up an accurate load with 165/168 gr bullets to match a BDC reticle and keep a good range finder in the cab. ^^^This^^^ Personally I've got two truck guns for just that purpose. One is a heavy barreled AR 15 with a 20" barrel. I use a 62 gr Barnes TSX in it My second is a short barreled 308 in the RUGER Gunsight Scout. I'm cheap, so I use 150 Rem Corelocts since the shoot 1/2" MOA in my rifle.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,403 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,403 Likes: 17 |
I'd think the Howa mini 6.5 Grendel would be a good fit for you.
I always wanted to build a 6br at 18" with a DBM but went .223AI at 21" instead as it just kinda fell in my lap.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,372 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,372 Likes: 18 |
Thanks for posting those links Dollar, interesting info. Haven't seen anybody do that in a while.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,679 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,679 Likes: 7 |
The 223 of those listed, I'd have to go 308 Winchester in a good bolt gun and work up an accurate load with 165/168 gr bullets to match a BDC reticle and keep a good range finder in the cab. I'm rather petrified that you and I were thinking the exact same thing.
WWP53D
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37 |
Those ain't hog cartridges. Any cartridge is a hog cartridge.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37 |
and will be using it on coyotes and hogs from up close to probably 400yds. Thinking of 223, 243, or 6.5 creedmoor and wondering which one is going to be affected the least with that barrel length? Thanks First off -- I don't have a prejudice toward/against any of the cartridges you mention. Secondly - hogs out to 400 yds, I'd think you'd need punch and bigger holes. Thirdly - Denton or Mathman etc. could explain this better than I. The larger the bore (caliber) the less velocity (speed) is lost by shorter barrel length. Example of the principle - I had a 20" bll 308 W, yet I was able to get the same velocity w/ 150 gr bullets AS with 22"ers. Bore Capacity can only be increased so much by added bll length >> to a point. In converse, a larger bore is less susceptible to velocity loss in shorter lengths. HELP Denton <grin> So, if you follow me, the 6.5 or even 7-08 will fair well in shorter barrel lengths. Good Luck Jerry Thinking the operative phrase is "expansion ratio".
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37 |
RD, I'm puzzled why you need a short barreled truck gun. Never had any problem handling a full size gun in or around trucks myself, but I don't drive dwarf sized pickups either. On the other hand, if a compact rifle is what you need give some thought to a single shot such as a Ruger#1 or TC Encore.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 178
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 178 |
A Ruger American with a 16" barrel in 300 Blackout will do most anything reasonable. 110 grain GMX at 2395 fps and 125 grain Nosler BT at 2250 and one hole accuracy at 100 yards. Groups better than you would think at 300 yards, too.
There was no greater freedom than when I would leave Holiday Park Fish Camp heading my airboat west toward the Big Cypress. Fuel for 4 days, a good machete, an ice chest. No phone, no radio. Just God and me and the Everglades.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Bore Capacity can only be increased so much by added bll length >> to a point. In converse, a larger bore is less susceptible to velocity loss in shorter lengths. HELP Denton <grin>
So, if you follow me, the 6.5 or even 7-08 will fair well in shorter barrel lengths.
Good Luck
Jerry
Thinking the operative phrase is "expansion ratio". Sorry Dan, but it is Bore Capacity. I have Denton's equation to figure it. Bore Capacity = Bore Squared / 1000. ***edit << -- Bore Dia.*** Squared/1000 The problem w/JR40s comparison is the 06 & 308 use the SAME bore dia. Smaller bores have LESS capacity than larger bores. ( duh really) If you run comparisons 308 - 708 - 243, using the same CASE size you'll find the 'smaller' bores Lose MORE vel (speed) in SHORT blls. Casey (alpinecrick) verified what I suspected per the 708. That's one cartridge I've never had but I've experienced the diff in bore capacity using 358/308/243 enuff to have predicted the 708 would do well. To All: I have no horse in this race. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 12/17/17.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
The short barrel doesn’t kill the SPC like it often does most 6.5s and smaller bores. That's a common theme the 6.8 fans like to repeat, but it's not really true. The 6.5 Grendel does just as well with shorter barrels as the 6.8 SPC. If we're going short, I will (and do) take a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel over a 12.5" 6.8.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,260 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,260 Likes: 9 |
I have a RU77 Tang with 17 inch barrel in .30-06. Gets 1.25 or so groups at 100. I have killed with it to 356 long paces on fairly open ground. My hunting partner refers to it as my "long-range rifle". I'll push it to 400, assuming I have a ranged yardage.(I didn't on the the 356 - that was an eyeball estimate @ 300 - the bullet clipped the sternum and opened up the heart - lucky shot - I now have a Leupold 800i rangefinder). You don't need a small caliber for such range, necessarily. But I'll push my .MOA .260 to 400 on animals up to 250 pounds or so. I'll only push myself on anything to 500 with my '98 with heavy bbl (.30-06) t, tho it gets inch groups at 300 if I can hold it steady enough. It is a 1,000 yard gun probably, but I'm only good to 500... I DO know the trajectories for the bullets I shoot in the calibers I shoot. That is far more important than caliber ... And knowing the range via rangefinder is even more so. But so is bullet/energy for the game targeted. Uh - no - edit. Of equal importance... Of all that said- for your uses, I would personally go no lower than .6.5 mm with 140 gr min. bullets if you are whacking things to 400 yards, and want clean kills. If you don't care about clean kills on hogs, even as they are a pestilence, ......well....get away from my coffepot.
Last edited by las; 12/17/17.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,692 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,692 Likes: 3 |
The short barrel doesn’t kill the SPC like it often does most 6.5s and smaller bores. That's a common theme the 6.8 fans like to repeat, but it's not really true. The 6.5 Grendel does just as well with shorter barrels as the 6.8 SPC. If we're going short, I will (and do) take a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel over a 12.5" 6.8. ....and inside 400, it won’t matter. You’ll generally burn a bit more powder in the grendel. I just find the spc easier to deal with in ARs, though I’m a 6.5 fan. If I only loaded, and didn’t care about some other stuff, I’d probably run the SPC case necked down to 6.5. If it’s a bolt gun, grendel or CM, or bigger, all the way.
Last edited by hh4whiskey; 12/18/17.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794 |
If you are not set on those cartridges I would go with a 6br with 18" barrel.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,355 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,355 Likes: 1 |
Keep your ear pro handy. I have never fired an AR in a truck but Travis has mentioned the brass gets flung into the heater vents. Personally I would want some type of light closed breach manually cycled weapon like a bolt gun with a 20 inch barrel on it. Maybe a Tikka T3 lite in 308 or 260, I have never been crazy about the 243 but I guess with 100 grain bullets. http://www.aihpa.com/Sponsor/Tikka_T3_Mag_Options/Tikka_T3_Mag_Options.htm
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 75,000 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 75,000 Likes: 5 |
6.5 Grendel with an 18'' barrel
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,281 Likes: 37 |
Jerry, I understood the distinction, but bore capacity is a component of ER and in context of this discussion I'm fairly certain one cannot ignore the broader perspective.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,017
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,017 |
In a bolt action rifle, I think a .308 and a 20" barrel go together like peanut butter and jelly.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,691
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,691 |
My truck or Mule gun while feeding or checking cows and windmill output is either a 20 inch short rifle in .30-30 or a 16.25 inch TC G2 Contender carbine in .223. The .30-30 is not quite a 400 yard gun, but the ranch is stocked for bad times. With normal rainfall, you would not likely see a coyote or small to medium size hog in the taller grass other than on hillsides. The Marlin is topped with a 3X, the TC with a 4X. Either does the job rather well. The TC is borderline to being too short. A longer barrel on it may be better.
Jack
"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Short, to 400?
20” minimum for blast and speed to expand on impact on long shots. 6 or 6.5 Cm with heavies made for hunting. 7/08 fine also. 140 AB, 150 NBT or ABLR
243 assuming good bullets - look at a 95 BT
For me- Under 300yd a 223 and 6.5G fine using good bullets.
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