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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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I never said anything about shooting blindly, that is a figment of your imagination.
If you are returning fire through a blank wall (which is how the church shooting started) you ARE shooting blind. BS, I said as long as you know where the shooter is you fire, that keeps his head down and saves lives. These type people are going to shoot innocent people unless someone intervenes.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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No. Never. But I heard they have something on the side called a safety? (So you can carry it with a round in the chamber, or so they say.)
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Campfire Outfitter
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I never said anything about shooting blindly, that is a figment of your imagination.
If you are returning fire through a blank wall (which is how the church shooting started) you ARE shooting blind. BS, I said as long as you know where the shooter is you fire, that keeps his head down and saves lives. These type people are going to shoot innocent people unless someone intervenes. Intervene when you can identity your target. Innocents can be on both sides of the wall. Get yourself to where you can see what you are shooting at first. He didn't care who he hit, his target wasn't even there, but you must care who you hit, or you are no less dangerous than he is.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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I question why anyone would be letting the hammer down to begin with on a 1911. It is my understanding that it is not designed to be carried with the hammer down on a live round. Put one in the chamber, put it on safety, put it in your holster carry on. The thumb slip should never have happened and it is my opinion that it happened because someone was operating the weapon in a manner it was not intended to be operated in. It's his life and his business and there is no reason for us to castigate him over his wrongful decision based upon a fallacious assumption that resulted from the improper handling of a weapon.
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Regular
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When I pocket carry my LCP II there is no round in the chamber. When I go to a restaurant, theater, meeting, party etc. where I will pocket carry, my chamber is empty. Why? Unlike when/where I carry it in a belt holster, when you sit down with a pistol in your pocket the barrel is likely going to be pointing at other people. I would not feel comfortable sitting in a theater if the guy behind me was pointing a fully loaded gun at my head. I don't care how safe he was or how unlikely it was for that gun to go off. I suspect most people here would not be comfortable either. When that pistol is in my pocket, the barrel is pointing at the head or back of the person sitting in front of me. That's unacceptable to me.
I carry to the theater because it is in a rough town and neighborhood and it's often dark when I walk to my car. I could leave it home, as some feel it's useless if there's not one in the chamber, but if I need a gun, it's closer than it would be in my night stand drawer. I pocket carry when I need that level of deep concealment due to the clothes I'm wearing.
It's ok to decide how to carry on a case by case basis, due to the exact circumstances and evaluating risk vs benefits. How/where/when you decide to carry a firearm is YOUR call. You will have to live with whatever consequences result from that decision. Inform yourself and make your decision and it's not up to me tell you what or how to do it or you to tell me how to do it. But, I would hope that the guy sitting behind me in a theater or restaurant is not carrying such that he is pointing a loaded gun at me, whether I can see it or not.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 6 |
I never said anything about shooting blindly, that is a figment of your imagination.
If you are returning fire through a blank wall (which is how the church shooting started) you ARE shooting blind. BS, I said as long as you know where the shooter is you fire, that keeps his head down and saves lives. These type people are going to shoot innocent people unless someone intervenes. Intervene when you can identity your target. Innocents can be on both sides of the wall. Get yourself to where you can see what you are shooting at first. He didn't care who he hit, his target wasn't even there, but you must care who you hit, or you are no less dangerous than he is. You dumb azz that’s what I said “once you know where the shooter is you engage. These type of shooters shoot innocent defenseless people. If others are where he is he will shoot them. You are extremely obtuse.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Ridiculousness persists.....Why dont you just stop pocket carrying if it scares you so badly? Why dont you carry a different gun, if the quality or design of the LCP is such that it makes you feel that it might go off without any outside influence?
but if thats the theory you are going to hang your hat on, then I am glad you dont have anything in the pipe.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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People complained about the original LCP trigger but it was perfect for a pocket gun,
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Ridiculousness persists.....Why dont you just stop pocket carrying if it scares you so badly? Why dont you carry a different gun, if the quality or design of the LCP is such that it makes you feel that it might go off without any outside influence?
but if thats the theory you are going to hang your hat on, then I am glad you dont have anything in the pipe. Once again, you don't get to decide for me how, when, what or why I carry. "I'm a grown azz man." Is any gun safe enough that you would want someone pointing a loaded gun at you for a couple hours? Regardless of how safe the gun is or how disciplined/safe is the person carrying it, I would not be comfortable. Go to a range and start pointing your safe but loaded gun (even if it's unloaded) at people and just say "it's ok, I'm a safe guy and my finger isn't on the trigger, nothing can happen" and see what the reaction would be. Since I wouldn't want anyone sitting behind me with a loaded pocket pistol pointing at my head, I won't do that to some unknowing person. That's my decision, and I don't give a flip if you think it's ridiculous or not.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A thumb slip on my Kimber 1911 could easily lead to an AD/ND when the chamber is loaded.
Okay, I'll ask again now that you've said it four times at least. How are you pulling the trigger with your thumb? Just curious. Is this a serious question? Have you never transitioned a revolver, 1911 or other hammer gun from loaded chamber and cocked to loaded chamber and uncocked? My thumb is used to drop the hammer gently. In addition, I generally place my other thumb between the hammer and the frame so that a thumb slip would cause nothing more than a pinch.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,927 Likes: 53 |
People complained about the original LCP trigger but it was perfect for a pocket gun, Agreed.
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
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I never said anything about shooting blindly, that is a figment of your imagination.
If you are returning fire through a blank wall (which is how the church shooting started) you ARE shooting blind. BS, I said as long as you know where the shooter is you fire, that keeps his head down and saves lives. These type people are going to shoot innocent people unless someone intervenes. Intervene when you can identity your target. Innocents can be on both sides of the wall. Get yourself to where you can see what you are shooting at first. He didn't care who he hit, his target wasn't even there, but you must care who you hit, or you are no less dangerous than he is. You dumb azz that’s what I said “once you know where the shooter is you engage. These type of shooters shoot innocent defenseless people. If others are where he is he will shoot them. You are extremely obtuse. You also said this, numnuts.: " The fact that you think you know ahead of time when you need to load your pistol and when you don’t Is ridiculous. The people sitting in church in a good part of town though they were safe also, yet a shooter walked in and slaughtered many of them. When the shooting starts I want to shoot back immediately, not need to load" Which would have been BLIND. You obviously can't count time.
Last edited by kellory; 01/12/18.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,530 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
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A thumb slip on my Kimber 1911 could easily lead to an AD/ND when the chamber is loaded.
Okay, I'll ask again now that you've said it four times at least. How are you pulling the trigger with your thumb? Just curious. Is this a serious question? Have you never transitioned a revolver, 1911 or other hammer gun from loaded chamber and cocked to loaded chamber and uncocked? My thumb is used to drop the hammer gently. In addition, I generally place my other thumb between the hammer and the frame so that a thumb slip would cause nothing more than a pinch. Yes it was a serious question. Thanks for answering. Why don't you just use the safety?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Feb 2004
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I question why anyone would be letting the hammer down to begin with on a 1911. It is my understanding that it is not designed to be carried with the hammer down on a live round. Put one in the chamber, put it on safety, put it in your holster carry on. The thumb slip should never have happened and it is my opinion that it happened because someone was operating the weapon in a manner it was not intended to be operated in. It's his life and his business and there is no reason for us to castigate him over his wrongful decision based upon a fallacious assumption that resulted from the improper handling of a weapon. My Kimber 1911 (and many other 1911s) have inertial firing pins - when the hammer is fully down two things are true: 1. The firing pin is not in contact with the primer. 2. The hammer cannot drive the firing pin into the primer unless it is driven forward with such force that it destroys the slide. They are perfectly safe to carry hammer down on a live round (Condition Two) and there is no mechanical reason not to do so.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Posts: 10,260
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Assuming an attack would commence exactly like a particular past incident is kind of silly. You two are engaged in a ridiculous argument, because that shooter could just as easily have walked into the building before he started shooting. He would have entered the room from behind where most of us would be sitting. Now how much time do you have?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Regular
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>>When the shooting starts I want to shoot back immediately, not need to load" <<
Then that is what you should do. Why do people here think that when someone states what THEY do that they are somehow saying that is what YOU should do? A discussion among grown peers shouldn't devolve into peer pressure, or ridicule. We should be able to discuss what we do and why without it turning personal. I'm interested in hearing what other people do and how they think about things like this. Ridicule and peer pressure will make it less likely for people to share. That benefits no one. It's perfectly fine to point out what and why you do differently. Is it possible to respectfully discuss something here like grown men?
Last edited by cooper57m; 01/12/18.
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When I pocket carry my LCP II there is no round in the chamber. When I go to a restaurant, theater, meeting, party etc. where I will pocket carry, my chamber is empty. Why? Unlike when/where I carry it in a belt holster, when you sit down with a pistol in your pocket the barrel is likely going to be pointing at other people. I would not feel comfortable sitting in a theater if the guy behind me was pointing a fully loaded gun at my head. I don't care how safe he was or how unlikely it was for that gun to go off. I suspect most people here would not be comfortable either. When that pistol is in my pocket, the barrel is pointing at the head or back of the person sitting in front of me. That's unacceptable to me.
I carry to the theater because it is in a rough town and neighborhood and it's often dark when I walk to my car. I could leave it home, as some feel it's useless if there's not one in the chamber, but if I need a gun, it's closer than it would be in my night stand drawer. I pocket carry when I need that level of deep concealment due to the clothes I'm wearing.
It's ok to decide how to carry on a case by case basis, due to the exact circumstances and evaluating risk vs benefits. How/where/when you decide to carry a firearm is YOUR call. You will have to live with whatever consequences result from that decision. Inform yourself and make your decision and it's not up to me tell you what or how to do it or you to tell me how to do it. But, I would hope that the guy sitting behind me in a theater or restaurant is not carrying such that he is pointing a loaded gun at me, whether I can see it or not. If I thought like that,and I'm not criticizing your reasoning, I would not carry a semi auto. I would put a hamerless airweight in my pocket,in a pocket holster and just leave the one in line with the barrel empty. I'm of the opinion that when you really need a pistol,you might not even have time to get one out of your pocket,let alone chamber a round. I don't care how fast you can do it in practice, when someone comes in the convenience store you are in with a shotgun and shoots the first guy,your dexterity will go to hell. You would probably jam it if you tried to chamber one.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Is it possible to respectfully discuss something here like grown men? ….You must be new to the Handgun Forum….. :-)
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Let's dispense with all the description of various pistols that I am fully aware of and cut to the chase...
So, how are you chambering a round without cocking the hammer?
Oh - I guess you mean you lower the hammer after chambering a round - right? Reasonable question. And yes, when I load the chamber I've usually dropped the hammer. My S&W Shield is striker-fired so no hammer to drop. That one would get safed but I've never gone to loaded chamber with it except at the range. The others have hammers. Seems to me that what you haven't learned is that you actually introduce more opportunities for such discharges (snip) ..........Has my carrying empty chamber mostly and only rarely going to a loaded chamber condition really introduced more opportunities for an AD/ND? I think not. Many years ago, I had an AD at the range (gun pointed downrange - no harm) while lowering the hammer in the first SA auto I ever owned (because somebody told me I should). Sweaty thumb slip. I have seen the same thing happen with a lever action rifle. (admittedly, not directly related to the discussion, since it had no safety other than half-cock) I have never seen any way that a proper 1911 can AD when left C&L - without something depressing the grip safety and the trigger - which isn't going to happen while carrying it in a good holster. Hence - my view is that lowering the hammer on a live chamber offers more chance of an AD than simply leaving it C&L. As for the rest of it - the need to chamber a round or thumb a hammer back just introduces one more opportunity for a bobble under pressure - at the most critical time. If it's worth that risk to you, go with it if you like.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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