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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Just off the top of my head, I’ve had EGW, Talley, USO, NF, Weaver, etc, pic rails. They all fit and functioned just fine, but my preference, just for peace of mind, is a rail with an integral recoil lug.


Jordan,I've heard of a recoil lug in picatinny rails but I don't understand how it works. I guess I've never seen one.


Recoil Lug on a Seekins Rail.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by 16penny
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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Just off the top of my head, I’ve had EGW, Talley, USO, NF, Weaver, etc, pic rails. They all fit and functioned just fine, but my preference, just for peace of mind, is a rail with an integral recoil lug.


Jordan,I've heard of a recoil lug in picatinny rails but I don't understand how it works. I guess I've never seen one.

[Linked Image]

I yoinked this pic off the 'net...

You can see the little lip sticking down over the front of the loading port, which acts as a recoil lug, and takes the lateral stress off the base screws under recoil.

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Also, the hole in the rail are slightly oblong, allowing the base a little leeway fore & aft for positive lug contact.

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Thanks for the rail lug explanation. That was the only way I could think of it working but I had never seen one before.

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So what brand of rails have a recoil lug (other than the seekins) or conversely which do not?

Thanks,

Jerry


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Campfire 'Bwana
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These rails have recoil lugs (M700 applications):
Seekins
NF
Badger Maximized
TPS XP
Precision Armament
Xtrema Hardcore Gear
Near
Farrell FG-Force
Weaver Extended (per Jordan)

No Lug:
LaRue
McCann
Warne Mountain Tech
Warne
Talley
GG&G
Farrell


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Originally Posted by kingston
Off the top of my head...

These rails have recoil lugs (M700 applications):
Seekins
NF
Badger Maximized
TPS XP
Precision Armament
Xtrema Hardcore Gear
Near

No Lug:
LaRue
McCann
Warne Mountain Tech
Warne
Talley


Weaver Extended, as well.

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
I am going to mount a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10X42 on my Kimber Montana. I've been debating with myself whether I should use Talley Lightweights or go with a Picatinny rail and rings. The whole purpose of the NF is to eliminate any possible scope issues ,so I'm leaning toward a good rail and ring set up. How it looks is way down on the list but I don't mind cutting down on unnecessary weight or bulk if I'm not sacrificing dependability. I've not used a lot of rail and rings before so I would appreciate some suggestions of what would be best.

Right now I'm thinking of ordering either the Nightforce or Talley picatinny rail and some Nightforce light weight rings. I would go with the Burris extreme tactical signature rings but I was concerned that the extra width might limit my mounting adjustment on the short action.

Right now I use Talley lightweights with a 1" scope in mediums because the height of the mediums align with my eye better than the lows. I'm willing to consider any other ring options though if there is something better ,or that will fit the set up better.

Yes,I know it will add considerable weight to the Montana but I'm tired of wondering if I'm having scope problems or something else. I've been chasing my tail with this rifle,sometimes shooting one hole groups and sometimes 3" groups,and sometimes one hole groups to different POI without a scope adjustment or ammo change on the same day. Formidilosus has been generous enough to loan me a NF NXS to try the reticle and see how I like it on this rifle. If I like it,I'll order one. At least I'll know if I'm having some other issues other than scope and mounts. If the NF doesn't get me sorted out,I'm either going to rebarrel the Montana or get a Fieldcraft but I think I'm done with light weight unreliable scopes.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions on mounts,and even pictures of your set up if you have something similar to what I am wanting.


Talley LW all the way. That how I mounted my SHV (virtually identical in size and weight to your jealously-inducing NXS) on my 7 WSM Montana. Works great. Don't overthink this. smile

FWIW, I'm also using Talley LW's to mount the SHV on my faux Xtreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM. Both rifle shoot itty-bitty groups and the zero holds tight.


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It beats remembering what a Kimber Montana is, and does best, here... it's a featherweight HUNTING RIFLE.

Even if a rail system gave some incremental improvement in group size (compared to Talley LW's) on a 20-lb match rifle, can YOU actually use that extra precision shooting a Kimber Montana? Be honest with yourself. I've put a shïtload of rounds through my 7 WSM Montana and as much as I love the rifle, there are just some limits with such a light rifle and a mere mortal behind the trigger.

That's what I mean by don't overthink this. Talley LW's are a great setup in my experience: are simple, are strong, are very light, and cheap! And I seriously doubt they'll limit anybody in any meaningful way compared to a rail. But the rail setup will cost a lot more, weigh a lot more, and basically goober-up a fine featherweight rifle... for no real reason IMHO IME.


The CENTER will hold.

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FÜCK PUTIN!
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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
It beats remembering what a Kimber Montana is, and does best, here... it's a featherweight HUNTING RIFLE.

Even if a rail system gave some incremental improvement in group size (compared to Talley LW's) on a 20-lb match rifle, can YOU actually use that extra precision shooting a Kimber Montana? Be honest with yourself. I've put a shïtload of rounds through my 7 WSM Montana and as much as I love the rifle, there are just some limits with such a light rifle and a mere mortal behind the trigger.

That's what I mean by don't overthink this. Talley LW's are a great setup in my experience: are simple, are strong, are very light, and cheap! And I seriously doubt they'll limit anybody in any meaningful way compared to a rail. But the rail setup will cost a lot more, weigh a lot more, and basically goober-up a fine featherweight rifle... for no real reason IMHO IME.


I can understand that point,but an aluminum rail and rings won't add that much more weight.Also the standard 84m is lighter than the WSM actions,so there's a bit more room to beef things up and still have a relatively light weight set up.

When I bought the Montana I went as light as possible with everything,but I'm beginning to rethink things. Now I think I may prefer the light rifle just so I can have a heavier more reliable scope and mounts and still be reasonably light,compared to what it would have been starting with a heavier rifle and adding the same scope and mounts.

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Quote
Talley LW all the way.


Agreed Jeff, but remember, those aren’t “tacticool”.. a guy really needs @ 20 oz scope and I-beam mounts to support it. Those 500 yard shots are demanding. laugh


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Originally Posted by Brad
Quote
Talley LW all the way.


Agreed Jeff, but remember, those aren’t “tacticool”.. a guy really needs @ 20 oz scope and I-beam mounts to support it. Those 500 yard shots are demanding. laugh


I've had 2 pair of LW's crack. I still have them on a few rifles but nothing else gets them. Rail with Seekins rings or DNZ's have been good to me the last few years. DNZ's are STOUT for a lw ring if you can live with the spacing limitations.

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Interesting. I’ve had at least 25 pairs. Never an issue. But I do lap them, and use a torque wrench.


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Originally Posted by Brad
Quote
Talley LW all the way.


Agreed Jeff, but remember, those aren’t “tacticool”.. a guy really needs @ 20 oz scope and I-beam mounts to support it. Those 500 yard shots are demanding. laugh


Nah to add that stuff to get up to that 7-7.25 pound you have mentioned you prefer as well. smile

Of course I can get by with lesser scope and have for years. Problem is now that I have used scopes that don't require a couple adjustment click everytime I check "zero" its hard to go back to the ones that do. Epsecially when I always have those other rifles that are lighter if needed. wink

I do have like 4-5 pairs of Kimber Talley's of various sizes if anyone want to buy them. $30 each shipped....some 30mm some 1", some black, some silver, some lows, some mediums. smile

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Originally Posted by Brad
Interesting. I’ve had at least 25 pairs. Never an issue. But I do lap them, and use a torque wrench.


I've had a bunch of them, only the 2 cracked. I don't lap and only use 2 fingers on the short end of the wrench to tighten alternating screws so there is a chance I over-tightened...but nothing else has ever failed and the same technique is used. That rifle lived (still lives) a hard life as it lives in an ATV boot and is used/carried/driven every day. The DNZ mounts which replaced the LW's are still good.

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Originally Posted by alaska_lanche
Originally Posted by Brad
Quote
Talley LW all the way.


Agreed Jeff, but remember, those aren’t “tacticool”.. a guy really needs @ 20 oz scope and I-beam mounts to support it. Those 500 yard shots are demanding. laugh


Nah to add that stuff to get up to that 7-7.25 pound you have mentioned you prefer as well. smile

Of course I can get by with lesser scope and have for years. Problem is now that I have used scopes that don't require a couple adjustment click everytime I check "zero" its hard to go back to the ones that do. Epsecially when I always have those other rifles that are lighter if needed. wink

I do have like 4-5 pairs of Kimber Talley's of various sizes if anyone want to buy them. $30 each shipped....some 30mm some 1", some black, some silver, some lows, some mediums. smile


I actually prefer dots, as they're a "set and forget" proposition. However, I certainly "get" wanting a scope that tracks perfectly, like the NF. For what I do a light Leupold with a CDS is fine. Yes I do prefer a 7 - 7.25lb rifle, but I don't like the weight sitting on top. I prefer it out front in the barrel, not awkwardly perched on top in the middle of the rifle like Dolly Parton and her bolt-on's. And of course, a lighter scope really negates the need for heavy mounts. A 20 oz scope up high is subject to a lot more forces than a 12 oz one and for sure it's smart to use a more stout mount.

We all find our way to the same end differently for sure... use what you wish, go forth and slay beasts. This is all fun and games anyway, and if it isn't then psychoanalysis is in order.


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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by Brad
Interesting. I’ve had at least 25 pairs. Never an issue. But I do lap them, and use a torque wrench.


I've had a bunch of them, only the 2 cracked. I don't lap and only use 2 fingers on the short end of the wrench to tighten alternating screws so there is a chance I over-tightened...but nothing else has ever failed and the same technique is used. That rifle lived (still lives) a hard life as it lives in an ATV boot and is used/carried/driven every day. The DNZ mounts which replaced the LW's are still good.


Sounds like you had a mount failure to me, but I wasn't there putting the scope together. Finger tight with the short end of the torx shouldn't be much over the 18 in lbs spec'd. I will say, I am fairly certain a light lapping helps Talley Lwt's. mfg's opinion aside. All I've ever had get lapped lightly to remove the "Talley Pinch."


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I just mounted mine on the .280 84L with Talley LWs. Based on past experience with Talleys I think they'll work just fine.



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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by alaska_lanche
Originally Posted by Brad
Quote
Talley LW all the way.


Agreed Jeff, but remember, those aren’t “tacticool”.. a guy really needs @ 20 oz scope and I-beam mounts to support it. Those 500 yard shots are demanding. laugh


Nah to add that stuff to get up to that 7-7.25 pound you have mentioned you prefer as well. smile

Of course I can get by with lesser scope and have for years. Problem is now that I have used scopes that don't require a couple adjustment click everytime I check "zero" its hard to go back to the ones that do. Epsecially when I always have those other rifles that are lighter if needed. wink

I do have like 4-5 pairs of Kimber Talley's of various sizes if anyone want to buy them. $30 each shipped....some 30mm some 1", some black, some silver, some lows, some mediums. smile


I actually prefer dots, as they're a "set and forget" proposition. However, I certainly "get" wanting a scope that tracks perfectly, like the NF. For what I do a light Leupold with a CDS is fine. Yes I do prefer a 7 - 7.25lb rifle, but I don't like the weight sitting on top. I prefer it out front in the barrel, not awkwardly perched on top in the middle of the rifle like Dolly Parton and her bolt-on's. And of course, a lighter scope really negates the need for heavy mounts. A 20 oz scope up high is subject to a lot more forces than a 12 oz one and for sure it's smart to use a more stout mount.

We all find our way to the same end differently for sure... use what you wish, go forth and slay beasts. This is all fun and games anyway, and if it isn't then psychoanalysis is in order.


Agreed 100% most of this is certainly psychoanalysis. The LRD set and forget way is by for the best way to roll with Leupolds I agree especially since they will never put a TMOA or similar in their smaller scopes.

I certainly am not nearly the rifle aficionado as yourself to have balance dialed to where you can say you prefer the weight out front, but not too much cause you cut the 84Ls back to 21-23", but you also like the weight out front so you don't put a big scope on there.....cause I can't tell the difference often just shouldering rifles of similar weight rifle setup of totally different. This is most likely a blessing in disguise that I am too ignorant to know the difference. I also openly admit I am also not near astute enough to tell the 1.5 ft/lb of recoil difference between a 165 grain bullet at 2750 fps and a 180 grainer at 2650 fps out of the same rifle when I shoot them back to back and claim the 180s are that much more. I tried it by having my wife load them for me without looking 2 of each in the mag and I tried my damnedest to guess which was which but honestly they all felt the same to me haha. To me they both recoil stiff in a lightweight and no discernible difference.

Like you said its all psychonanalysis as we look over every tiny detail when we can't be out hunting. Then when the time to go hunting most of use would be happy to just grab a $300 rfile and a $150 scope and go slay just as well as we would with the rifle setups we agonize over and spend far too much on. But what fun would that be right? smile Thanks for the reply...always enjoy reading your thoughts.



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