Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Hunting Cartridges , Better in the field ..than on paper

A buddy of mine and myself was having a interesting conversation last night ...
We were discussing , Hunting cartridges that performed better in the field than they looked on paper ...such as velocity and such ..

We mentioned several .. Im just to start with one that I use personally for years ..
The 30-30 Winchester .. Seem like factory ammo use old school bullets that work perfectly for the 30-30 .. Open up great and pentrate deep ...despite being so old school ..

257 Robert's

I'll throw in the 6.5x55 Swede..In this new era of .26 cal hype its often overlooked in favor of the new kids on the block.Been hunting and shooting several Swedes for many years, their field performance on game is legend and way surpasses what a newcomer to the chambering might imagine just like the reliable old 7x57. Newer bullets and powders only add to its already decent terminal numbers..it'll be around many more years to come.

The 32 special has droped two deer for me on the spot with standard behind the shoulder shots using Rem Core Loc bullets. Kinda supprised me, but its alos oretty limited expiereance. One day I will take an elk with the same gun.

.35 Remington
25-06

.357 mag

+ 1

Ho-Hum cartridges I have used that killed FAST and far batter then the paper ballistics would indicate are:


300 Savage. Factory loads with 150 grain and handloads with 165 grain. Deer, Horses Cattle.
270 Winchester 150 grain Remington RN bullets. Deer, Elk, Antelope, Bear, Cattle, Horses. Cattle, One Moose.
8X57 Mauser Handloads, the best of which were 200 grain Nosler Partitions. Deer, Antelope, Elk.
303 British Hand loads with cast bullets of 195 grains, gas checked. Only 2000 fps. Deer. Mountain Lion.
44 magnum with hand loaded 240 grain soft points and many more with 260 to 320 grain hand cast bullets. Deer, Elk, Antelope, Bear, Buffalo, Horses, Cattle.
35 Remington with 220 grain hand loads. Deer, Bear.
357 mag revolvers with 187 grain hand cast LBT Gas Checked bullets. Deer, Antelope.
30-40 Krag with 220 grain round nose bullets. Deer.
7X57 with slow old 175 gr round nose bullets. Deer, Elk.

BINGO - especially since According to the 'Fire' the 270 W is gay !
I've been using the 270 since 1976 at least and in the mean time I've used a whole lot more. From my 'observation' only the fast Magnums have anything on the 270 and that.. AT DISTANCE.

I've seen the 44 M do 'WAY' more than I expected, particularly UP CLOSE. I've literally HEARD deer plop on the ground. NO exageration.


Jerry

To All,

SEVERAL "old school" & undervalued by "gun writers"/"noted experts" include .22 Hornet, .22 Savage High-Power, .244 Remington, .25-35WCF, .30-40 Krag, .32-40WCF, .33WCF, .351WSL, 9x57mm, 9.3x57mm, .38-40 (rifle & pistol), .38-55, .401WSL, .44SPL, .44-40 (both rifle & pistol loads) & .50-70 Government perform far better than their "paper ballistics" would make them seem to be capable of.

A personal note: One of the things that I find "more than somewhat amusing" is that several "experts"/publications "champion" the .357 Magnum in a rifle or carbine for hunting deer at moderate ranges but (often in the same publication) state that the old .351WCF, which is in ANY "factory loading" considerably more powerful than any safe loading of the .357 Magnum, is "completely inadequate for hunting anything larger than coyotes".

yours, tex

Great cartridge to start with.

Heck Jwall, I have made so many fast magnums over the last 50 years I can't count them and I have owned quite a few myself. Honestly, not one of them has beat the 270,............. even at long range.

The shoot a bit faster, and some shoot heavier bullets. All of the super mags should do more. But you really can't get "more" because instant death is still instant.

So far I have seen a performance jump in killing elk when I get to the 375H&H over the 270 Winchester, but using the 300s, a few 338s and some fast 7MMs I can't say I have seen ANY difference in the speed of the kills over a 270 in most cases, and the ones that were different were less effective because the bullets would not hold together.

If you use a Swift, a Barnes X or the heavy Nosler Partitions in a 7MM STW you have a rifle that kills every bit as well as a 270, but no better. And I mean no better at all. I have nothing against fast mags and I make them to fund my living many times.
But the truth is still true, and 50 years of building and using them has shown me what I am writing here.

If you need more then you can get from a 270, you don't need 6% or 10% more. You need a LOT more.

If we strip away the religion from our hobby and ask real-world intelligent questions, the truth come right out.



Here is the question:
What hunting situation exists where a 150 grain 270 bullet at an impact velocity high enough to make it expand is just not enough..............but if we add 100 to 150 FPS more, or keep the velocity the same and add 20 grain more weight to the bullet, its suddenly the death ray of Darth Vadar .......and it's the best thing the world.

Is there really such a situation anywhere............on any game...............at any range?



I own some big magnums. My 300 for example will shoot a 200 grain Nosler Partition to the same trajectory as my 270 shoots a 150 grain. It has more energy at every distance. It should kill deer, elk and antelope faster. So should my 338 Win mag with 250 grain bullets. Or my 325 Short mag with 200 grain bullets. They should kill faster!

30 years of experience has shown me they doesn't. They are every bit as good, but up to elk size animals they are not better.

I get exits and fast kills with my 270 and I have only one time ever had to shoot an elk 2 times with a 270. (I found I didn't really need to shoot the 2nd time, but the elk stayed on it's feet for a few seconds longer than I was used to so I shot again. The 1st round would have done it fine, but I didn't know at the time so I shot twice and hit both times)

I have been killing game all over the USA and in a few other country too for about 53 years now . As a rule I just like bigger rifles and bigger bullets. It's just a preference.

But to be 100% honest, I can't say I have ever seen one time with a 270 where I was disappointed, as long as a good bullet was used, and I am taking about kills from jack rabbits to bull buffalo and moose, and quite a few horses and cattle along the way too.

Most hunters establish their preference from some experience and a lot of reading opinions they like, and then they come up with a religious worship of a gun or a cartridge, and go on a life long quest to show all others are false gods.

Me......I like my big bores and I enjoy building them, hunting with them, shooting them in practice and I believe in their capabilities 100% but I am not dishonest enough to deny what I have seen over 1/2 a century.

And the truth is that if a 270 won't do, you'd better be looking at a 375H&H----- or even bigger. A 416 Barrett maybe.

If you can't do it with a 270 you either can't shoot very well or you are in WAY over your head. Or both.

The great wonder of the world. The humble .22 lr. Probably accounted for more critter kills than everything else combined.

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^ There is probably a lot of truth to that statement.

The 22WMR, I think it’s really underrated. Kills better than it should

22 mag is one of the best poacher`s cartridge ever developed,and yes your right 22 mag. is very underated. some of us call a 22 mag. "critter killer" and the 22 mag anchors those critters dead with less noise too ! I have killed 100`s of critters and 22 mag works much better on medium size critters over a 22 L.R. hands down.

I always thought the 7x57 outperformed it's book values.

Oh ...I agree on all mentioned above .. Special "oh yes" on the 270 winchester with 150gr RN ....

And the 6.5x55 ... I had a Swedish Mauser that I rescued from a Bubbaized ...I finished it up .. pruned the tube to 18inches ..D&T'ed .. put a low mount safety on it .. had the bolt handled bent .. worked up a handload useing Hornady 6.5 160gr RN bullets .. It was a lightweight tack driver .. Killed several whitetails but never recoverd a bullet all where" Bang drops"... A fellow talked me out of it ... I alway planned to build another .. But I never did ... I went back to useing leverguns .. with the 30-30 leading the way .. and messed with the 270 Win with 150gr RN ... seemed like the 6.5x55 on steroids ...

I have thought seriously about a 6.5 Creedmoor .. and work up some loads with the Hornady 160gr RN .. those long high SD bullets just work ...I'd like to have a 18 to 20 inch carbine in 6.5 Creed .. and work up a few loads ..

I'd give a vote to my 35 remington.

300 Savage has got to be one of the most underestimated hunting cartridges ever. Lots of other interesting rounds mentioned!