Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns You Can't Do That

There was a thread going about handguns beyond the 45's. 480-500 S&W's being the discussion.

One fellow owned a 50 AE in a BFR and commented he would ditch his AE in favor of a JRS in 50 caliber because it would handle heavier bullets and would allow a roll crimp in the crimp groove, or a more secure crimp.. The thought being and current common knowledge tells us that wheelguns chambered in an auto cartridge with a rimless case needs the headspace off of the case mouth or some artificial rim like a moon clip. I was thinking at the time how I had shot around 200 rounds of 45 ACP (45 Super) loads like the weekend before, all roll crimped in a NOE reproduction of the Keith 453423. A friend shot two does a week or so later from his 45 Auto AR with the same load. The rifle headspaces off of the case mouth as well....

I mentioned that prior to taper crimp dies, 45 ACP dies were all roll crimp dies. Taper crimp dies showed up with match chambers and the tolerances and feeding of the 1911 of its inception began to change. Battle accurate and reliability gave way to paper, more precision and different bullets.

Auto cartridges still have .005-.010 headspace of cartridge length to play with. Roll crimping, even in a cast bullet cannelure, is easily feasible with cases from max to middle OAL.

The other part of the equation is "limited bullet weight". While every factory or semi-custom ammunition loader can roll out great ammo, their best intentions are still afterthoughts of some reloader getting more out of their gun or cartridge in question. Everyone knows the 50 AE needs a jacketed, taper crimped bullet at 300-350grs. weight. Like the 45 Auto, it HAS to be taper crimped, HAS to use certain bullets of a certain weight and gives up so much because it doesn't have a rim in a revolver. The 45 Colt, at one time and still in some circles, was given a similar litany of absolutes that are commonly overlooked today.

Elmer's best bullet designs were handicapped by companies seeking a "one size fits all" bullet that left us in the dirt until LBT came along. If you look at "Sixguns", he had already created a bullet very similar to the one I will show you here, albeit its limited function was made worse as distances grew longer, because design was dictated by a mould maker wanting it to work in every commercially made gun. But that is another story....

Needless to say, today was nice enough to go out and shoot the 25-2 with .454-5 throats. It was a PITA only in regards to not having an ejector rod to kick out the empties! I will be using this load again in the future, but with Auto Rim cases in the DA 25-2. Sorry, I didn't have the chronograph out today, but custom LBT bullets, as the photos hopefully show, maximize powder space or reduce pressure by allowing bullets to occupy the throat. A plus in the long throat of the 25-2, 1917. No tipping and inaccuracy here!
300 LBT FN sized .454, mixed 45 ACP cases, Fed. 150, 10.5 grs 2400.
Note how roll crimp headspace compares to factory taper crimp ammo when chambered.
Hope this sheds some light on the "handicap" of auto cartridges in revolvers!

LBT Bullets were a game changer for me. I've killed stuff with them in my .44 mag with a 260 gr WFN, 45 LC with a 300 gr WFN, .45 acp, with a 230 gr WFN, and 10mm with a 220 gr WFN. And various other LBT cast bullets in those same calibers. Even loaded at lower velocitys, they penatrate well and kill stuff DRT. They are also the best bullet molds I've ever used, bar none.

Ole Elmer would have loved them! Reading "Sixguns" and "Hell, I was There" as a kid caused me to buy copious amounts of big bore S&W Revolver, Colt SAA, and Ruger BlackHawks and RedHawks. He was a bad influence.