Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LR Hunting - Why?

Bush

walk a mile man. Come on. Its taken me over an hour to get to a caribou I shot.

I know some folks that shot a mule deer down a canyon, off the top of a rim. No way to get to it without ropes, so they drove around. All 63 miles around to get to the canyon!

Don't agree with folks that have skill for longer shots? No need for all the hate. There are times and places for us all. I personally have fun doing whatever. Call it what you want. I run anywhere from a recurve and 3 yard shots to rifles and 800 yard shots so far. Have a grand time with them all. All are hunting. All require different types of skills that not many have. In all the goal is a dead animal. We take different roads to get to the same destination. If we all used the same route it would be over crowded.

Whats teh big deal?

Jeff

Ridge,

I'm a big fan of wild red meat. I've got a freezer full of it taken by my own hand and carried out on my own back. So, PETA operative I am not. In fact, I'd have your back against them or any other anti-hunting outfit, but I'd also be content to scrap with you with regard to what I believe to be a more accurate characterization of your activity. Again, what you are doing is not hunting. It is shooting at what just happens to be something living. Nothing more, hombre. Trust me...I know how to shoot. I know how to hunt. And I know the difference between the two.

As far as the piss poor, scratch that...NO EXPLANATION...of why it took you an hour to get over to the doe from your rest on the shoulder of the four lane interstate...C'mon...I've been back East a number of times...which is where I gather you are from since you are allowed to take that many dog sized deer. Nothing against your flora and fauna, but your terrain if FLAT in comparison to the areas we hunt out here in the NW. So, if you couldn't get to the spot you shot that doe in over and hour...yes, I'd surmise that you must be overweight, out of shape, lazy or just plain unethical.

You are welcome to look me up on Kifaru, or here on 24Hr. if you like. I have many friends that can vouch for me. You are also welcome to come out here and try to stalk in close with me on some highcountry mulies, elk, sheep, goats and bear. I'd be happy to teach you a thing or two about hunting with bow or rifle miles from the nearest remote trailhead. And, perhaps you could teach me a thing or two about shooting.

You delude yourself.
Why would anyone trust you when you have no credentials.


You deliberately insult anyone who doesn't happen to agree with your conservative philosphy.

You set your self up as some kind of expert as if none of us know anything about getting close to animals when we have all already proven this on the thread. You remind me of the last guy. Just can't quite accept that we already know how to do the stuff you do.

You have no point other than to continue to make the same statement over and over irregardless of the facts.

The only delusion occuring here is when people refer to their long range shooting activity as "hunting".

Anyone with an IQ hovering above room temperature should be able to understand and accept the obvious differences between a surgically precise shooting activity whereby there is absolutely no way an animal could suspect your presence and hunting. Long range hunting is not a hunting activity...it is a merely a shooting activity.

And no Bob...I'm not insulting anyone who doesn't happen to agree with my conservative philosophy...again, just pointing out the obvious (at least to anyone that doesn't have their head in the sand or very firmly planted up their backside).

Bob

Bush has credibility with me. Might have a different "tone" on the net than I do but thats about it, for those that have been there/done that, Bob is with us.

Jeff

Bushcraft,

I expected to get some flack for spelling errors. I flunked the forth grade for not getting it right then. I still know I don't get spelling correct now. But I don't go to forums I disagree with and male antaginistic posts.

Since you know so much, though, why is it you don't practice a modicum amount of your vast knowledge? Could it be you are like me when I was a teenage and read all kinds of magazines about hot rods and didn't know the first thing about working on them?

Thank you Rost.

Ringman,

Given your "vast knowledge" statement, I can only infer that you are insinuating that I must think I know it all. I'll be the first to admit that I don't. I've never said that I know everything. That being said I have a pretty decent foundation for learning more of just about anything I wish and aggressively learn/practice new things that will improve my life and the lives of those I care about.

Paramount to the learning process is being able to discern differences. Correct from Incorrect. Black versus White. Up versus Down. Hunting from Shooting.

As I've said before, there is a none too subtle difference between a surgically precise shooting activity whereby there is absolutely no way an animal could suspect your presence and a hunting activity.

I'm not sure how you came up with the idea that I don't practice or know anything about long range shooting. I never said I didn't. I've also never said I know more about long range shooting than anyone else on this thread. One of my favorite rifles is one that a very talented local gunsmith did some excellent work on and I enjoy loading up and printing some very fine groups with it at varying distances. After all, that's part of the attraction of owning a fine shooting rifle, right? See what she'll do! See what you can do! Shooting a steel plate at 500-750 yards is fun and fulfilling. Experiencing the abusive CRACK overhead when in the pit downrange watching tiny groups develop is awe inspiring. It takes a bit of learning behind a rifle and a willing/knowledgable coach to help you get there. Spotting contrails, for example, really helps a fellow gain an understaning of how wind, distance and elevation gain/loss to target affects the final placement of a round. It also makes one realize just how long it can take a round to strike a target...and realize all the crappy real world stuff that could occur between pulling the trigger and the strike of the bullet on target a long ways out there. Same applies to arrows by a factor of 10.

Heh, Non-Aristotelian Logic obviously wasn't part of the learning process. I've got something to learn from everyone and I don't much care how its named. Life is a bunch of rheostats, not a bunch of switches.

I'll be the first to admit I have been guilty of "shooting" game instead of "hunting." The last time was two seasons ago when I took a medium sized buck.

....at 40 yds from a treestand. First and last time for that. Blasting a blindfolded fish out of a barrel would have been more fulfilling. In my opinion, calling that "hunting" because it was at close range is not logical. No offense to stand hunters intended, that just didn't do it for me.

Contrast that with this season's buck, taken from 473. He was spotted at over 700 and I closed the distance crawling on my belly in a ditch as far as possible. The wind was strong enough to make the shot challenging at 473, but doable. Now that was a hunt. It might come as a surprise to some who have never been out of the woods, but animals can "suspect your presence" at quite a distance, depending upon the terrain. I've seen both deer and antelope begin flight upon spotting orange close to a mile away--especially when they've had lots of hunting pressure. Walking would have been much easier than crawling in a ditch...but even from 700+ I would have been spotted and he would have been gone in an instant.

To characterize the first as "hunting" and the second as "shooting" simply because the first was at a closer range is quite myopic. Had the terrain layout differed and there had been less wind putting the final shot even farther...wouldn't really matter to me. The story and the feeling of the successful hunt would remain. I've had most excellent "hunting" experiences at very close range as well. Just as good, just different.

But for certain individuals, once you go beyond "X Range" (whatever that may be as they all pull a different one from their posterior) it suddenly becomes less worthy than the "fish in the barrel" shot from a stand for that reason alone.

There's no logic in it, only emotion and ignorance.

Bushcraft,



I was not refering to your shooting, I was refering to you being polite.

+1

well bush, I'll tell ya, I'm not fat (5'10"/165) or lazy I work 2 jobs, 6 days a week in the off season, yes I hunt in the east wv/va, and for 30 years I hunted as you describe it, find the trails travel corridors and put up stands, shoot'em at 50 yds. just about the simplest thing you could possibly do if you understand anything at all about game. after all here you get in the right place all thats left is pick the one deer out of 100 give or take a few of the deer you see that day. sound like a challenge? that what gives you a thrill, if this is what you live for I'm sorry. I have a family to support so the exotic hunting trips are out for the time being, so I put as much challenge into what hunting I have as I can.
I'll reiterate what you said, you come here, I'll show you how simple it is to place yourself within 50 yds of any deer you can find, but after 30 years it gets boring, so I made a choice, wasn't your choice, what I do is legal, and in my eyes, the way I do it is ethical so I don't really need to answer to anyone for it.
Now it was a 3/4 mile walk around the top of a ridge to retriev the doe which I shot at 532 yds, yes I could have taken a closer shot, but chose not to, with that rifle, I can hit a 4" circle just about everyshot at 700 yds, so it wasn't a diffacult shot, with that in mind what is the problem with shooting a deer that far? I can hunt the close cover but choose not to, and you start insulting me, whom you don't know anything about. I don't know you, don't want to at this point, I come to this forum to learn and share experiences on LR "hunting" not to discuss ethics, if you don't believe its right, why are you here? I don't condemn you for not hunting like I do, so how about the same courtesy?
RR

Whoa...I don't have a beef at all with killing an animal at 700 yards and I'll stand right their with you to defend anyone's right/priviledge to do so. I don't have a beef with guys that sit in a tree-stand all day and whack a deer at close range either. That would bore me to tears since I prefer the challenge of stalking them on the ground.

My issue is with semantics and why it is so hard for some to understand and accept the differnce of shooting at something that has absolutely no chance of discovering or detecting your presence as a hunter. That's not called hunting in my book...again, it's simply a shooting exercise.

Check this out...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1260824

Bushcraft

I'm with ya mostly bud! But the end result is a dead animal. Once you start giving parameters its hard to say what is and isn't challenging. But it is your choice of wording. I"ve said it before, if you feel better about using shooting instead of hunting to get to a dead animal fine. Just be aware that the skill it takes to shoot a long shot is equal to or harder than it is to get to whatever you define as closer.. and hunting.

Jeff

Rost,

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one...witness the length of time required to gain proficiency during a sniper training course (the Army's SOTIC course for example is a mere 6 weeks - not all of which is related to time behind a rifle) versus the number of years it may take to master the habits/abilities of one's prey and all the other environmental variables.

Allen

I don't understand the statement "I coud have taken a closer shot, but chose not to" especially followed by "just about every shot."

What I hear is that there is a chance that you are going to be a bit off target and yet you passed on the closer shot and therefore increased the risk of wounding an animal.

I don't disagree with long range hunting. I understand that there are situations due to terrain and what not that make it the only option. I am neither saying that I wouldn't take a long shot if I needed to.

I have said it before. I understand enjoying challenges. I don't understand why one would pass on the closer more certain shot intentionally increasing the chances of wounding an animal.

We have all been through the capabilities of some of the shooters/hunters on here. I don't want to go down that road again. I agree it is some amazing stuff.
My question has only been about why pass on the close one to intentionally increase the risk of wounding.

I would venture to guess that if it were a buck of a lifetime, you would have thrown lead at the first chance. That must mean that it is ok to increase the chance of missing/wounding a doe.

Allen

Sniper school shooters are not nearly as good as a well trained long range shooter. I've seen them come over from sniper to the marksmanship units, while good, they are not great. Great takes years. Just like hunting.
Plus their training, is day in day out, all day, which is only relative to hours, IE no one I know of could "hunt for 6 months straight trying to learn, and if they could, well they'd be pretty good. I guided for almost 2.5 months, every day, for a few years, I'd be a bit rusty but by Jan 1, I could walk around and get up within bow range of deer pretty easy. BTW I've talked to marksmanship unit shooters of equal or better shooting skill than I have, that have gone to sniper school. Backing this up, the accuracy requirements are not that great. IE simple for them to pass. Other field crafts in the course, depending on their background, differ.

Cacciatore
I'd personally have taken a closer shot also, but I have no issue with the shot not being there but waiting till it is, I recently let a doe go, had her well under 200, but by the time the shot was right she was close to 300. Had to change the mentality from head to body shot though due to terrain messing with my position.
I think you are mistaken about the almost every shot issue on a clay also. Clay is the size of a heart. If he'd have said almost every on a 12 inch steel, thats another situation. I also don't think some folks understand how still and stable practiced shooters are. I've been put on a laser trainer prone wiht a sling and iron sights-- my wobble is just under .5 moa. With bipod or better yet backpack its under that. Thinking to what I've seen on ranges on sight in day again.... Folks sighting in and happy to keep the shots on a paper plate or beer flat at 100 off BAGS!! And they actually shoot AT deer.....

Regards, Jeff

I saw deer that day anywhere from 375 yds to over 600, this deer fit the desription of what I was looking for, and offered what in my opinion was the best shot of the bunch, was gonna take a yearling doe at 389 but once I got the rifle set up< I never saw her again, she was there, just couldn't find her. The week before I did take a 375 yd shot on a bedded doe, she had her head curled around her body, POI was just under the eye, exactly where I was holding, the accubond exited, re-entered behind the shoulder, double dead if thats possible, I know the doe bedded beside her never got up till she smelled blood.
Oh and bush, in these steep lil ridges I hunt in, you can set up downwind, and after sunrise the thermals take care of you, I've taken shots from 9 feet without the deer having any idea I was there, your reasoning just doesn't make sense to me, if a deer knows your there, they wouldn't be.
Oh and my shooting ability, well I can and have on numerous occasions, started from a 100 yard zero, in a 6-9 mph wind, dialed my scope to a first shot from a cold bore POI within 2-3" of POA and shot a 1 7/8" 3 shot group out to 700 yds. I'm not a great shot but I do practice alot and have one exceptional rifle, don't have no idea how my smith does it, take a cartridge with 122 gr of H2o capacity and make it shoot that well.
RR
RR

"the accuracy requirements are not that great"

I agree on that. They've pretty much just started down the extreme accuracy road if they haven't done a lot of it beforehand.