Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A School Shooting Solution

Indeed, I prefer evil in a crossfire.

Just want to repeat the idea of separating the firearms from the ammo.

The ammo would be locked. The firearm would be carried. When the ballon goes up....the ammo become available.

There should also be others who have loaded weapons all the time......but not all in the detail.

How difficult is it for a stranger to walk into a school?
Honest question. I have no kids and it has been decades since I've been to a school other than a university.

My recollection is that it was pretty easy back in the day.
Most hotels/motels and most workplaces have a receptionist or guard that you pass by as you enter the facility.
That's not much but it is something.
Are schools today even less secure than say a workplace or hotel?

Stupid idea.

Not hard at all. I do it all the time. In fact, that's why I'm there. They have improved the front entry and added cameras and such at entrances, but people are people, and screw it up.
Teachers block open doors, kids kick lock handles, or hang from door closers, kick open panic bars, break glass in doors, jam gum or coins in latches. Bend hinges by shoving something in the hinge to hold a door open. And lots of other issues.
I would not doubt I could find a way into nearly any school building without even needing any tools. They are more secure at night, when many doors are chained shut.

Sandy hook entrance was achieved (iirc) by simply shooting out the glass sidelight next to the front door, and reaching through to open the door.

The vast majority of schools cannot pass what I call the "crowbar test". Actually, I can't remember a single one a half competent guy couldn't gain access to with nothing more then a common crowbar.

School security in this country is an illusion..

Which is who I mentioned I would be opposed to leaving loaded guns inside the classrooms in lock boxes.

I don't believe anyone said they would have to be left in the lock box. They could be removed at the end of the day.
Boxes would be on every teachers/administrators desk but the only ones armed would be for those that had had completed the mandatory training.

That works for me and my family.

And every time that box is opened, ther e is another set of eyes watching how. The best defense are the unknown defenses. Every transition of that gun to and from is another chance for an AD. NO, keep the gun under human control, or locked up tight, and leave it. (In which case, it better be well secured) anything less is just asking for problem.

In the modern world, that's not a very good idea. Cooking and cleaning used to be a full time job, but it's not any more. That vast majority of the chores historically performed by a stay at home mom are now automated. We no longer use scrub boards and clothes lines. We have dishwashers and microwave ovens. After the age of 4 kids are not home most of time anyway. I'm not in favor of tax breaks for someone to say home eat bon-bons and watch Oprah all day.

Why have most of the mass shootings been at schools? IMO, it's a known gun free zone. That fact has to stop! When I went to school, many years ago most of the teachers were women and some women shoot and hunt but GOD put women on this earth to produce life not take it. IMO, most females would have a tough time taking a life even if confronted by an armed individual unless protecting their own child. Maybe if military trained men & women were allow to walk the halls, it might make a difference in another attempt, but what about the 19 yo that drives his vehicle thru the front door loaded with explosives? Our country didn't get this mind set overnight and odds are we are not going to solve it overnight, my personal opinion is DF's solution is the only one that is going to work but as much as I hate to say it, That's not going to happen. God does have and will provide a solution, a lot of people don't know it and some of those that know about it don't believe it. Tough reading but pick up a bible and read the book of "Revelation"

Haha. Once kids hit school age I imagine things could get pretty boring. They work pretty hard with the little ones at home.

My wife's told me she has to work to keep for going crazy. Right now she's working 3 on and 4 off, and the 4 days at home is almost too much for her sanity.

So please give us your most excellent solution......

Antelope sniper.

Thanks

Yeah, good idea. Until someone pulls the fire alarm and the students come pouring out.

How about electronically locking up the ammo?

Where as several teachers, or workers at the school have to send a simotaneous signal.

The the lock boxes holding ammo clips will open. There fore making it safer?


How about we begin with the fact that you don't know the difference between a clip and a magazine?




Or do you plan to arm the teachers with SKS's?

It seems apparent from your posts you've never carried consistently for any length of time.

First think you need to consider when proposing a new plan, is what are all the things that can go wrong?

Multiple simultaneous secret codes all to be sent at the same time?

Will the principle have a Biscuit, and the assistant principle follow her around with a briefcase called the football?

How long will this process take, and how many kids would die in an active shooter scenario before anyone could get any ammo?

If you make the procedure too hard, the teachers will say "screw it" and bring their own. You forget we live in a repetitively free country where people can still buy magazines and ammo without government permission. Now your going to have teachers carry around unloaded guns, to include to and from school? Why not just put a sign on them saying "Please rob me, I have a gun but no ammo".

First, any program should be totally voluntary. That vast majority of the type of teacher you are worried about wouldn't want to carry a gun to begin with. Great. Let them self sort themselves out of the program, and the sheep dogs sort themselves in. Like most people you underestimate the effectiveness of self sorting.

If you are going to carry, do it the right way, on body, concealed, and totally grey. Once we get beyond those principles, that's where the trade offs begin. When addressing complex real life problems it's important to admit there are no perfect solutions, and most decisions involve some trade off.

As an example level 3 security holsters might be in order, but they have a tendency to be more bulky and complicate principle 3, remain totally grey.

For personal defense situations, events can unfold extremely quickly, so loaded chamber carry is typically advised. However, school defense is an example of general vs. personal defense, so the trade off of slower reaction time for added safety might be in order.

I think you are missing the biggest intent of the program, which is one of deterrence. Lets demonstrate this by combining two principles from Sun Tzu's The Art of War:

“An army may be likened to water, for just as flowing water avoids the heights and hastens to the lowlands, so an army avoids strength and strikes weakness.” Sun Tzu
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.” Sun Tzu

In other words, the goal in not to fight 100 fights, but to create sufficient deterrence that our schools are no longer considered soft targets, and the bad guys either reconsider their plans, or go else where. Uncertainty's a great psychological multiplier in these situations.

Here's a simple example. I had an economics professor who would make two difference tests, with different answer, printed on two different colors of paper. However, he'd only do this for the first test each semester. After that, he would hand out two separate test on two different colors of paper, but they would be the same test. The uncertainty factor created the necessary deterrence, without the additional work.

In the question at hand, the same principle applies. We don't need every teacher armed. Arm a few, who know what they are doing, but up some signs etc., we just need to create enough uncertainty to effect the desired change in behavior as it relates to our schools.

U presume a lot.

But say very little.

Anybody hell bent on killing will find a way to do it. Gun, car, knife, screwdriver, pencil.

I had my mountain bike tool, Allen wrenches, flat head Phillips screwdrivers etc, no knife, in
my carry on back pack. I was told to throw it away or put it in my checked luggage.

They let me bored the plane with sharpened pencils, pens, and ball bearings for my bike.

Go figure. I'm damn sure if somebody wanted to hurt somebody with what I was allowed to
take on the plane it could of happened.....