Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Second Amendment President Lieberman

What if Lieberman gets the democratic nomination?

What if he wins?

I won't vote for him or Bush, I'll be voting libertarian.

If Lieberman were elected he could never do the kind of damage to the Constitution we've seen accomplished by Bush. . It's possible he would be a moderate regarding Liberties compared to the radical loss of Liberties we've seen under Bush.
Note: I said "possible".

If Lieberman were elected, all of a sudden the election year patriots would have a full time job, instead of letting their guards down after the election. They may actually take an interest in what happens after the election.
This would not apply to any of us here. Anyone here taking the time to read this is actively interested as far as I'm concerned.

I think his nomination would be an inspiration to one of those peace loving moslems to give yet another demonstration of their tolerence for Americans and Jews. One of them will just have to run out and kill someone or him, to show their displeasure. Sirhan Sirhan comes to mind.

red

If Lieberman becomes President, obviously, the government will get larger and more powerful and more expensive and the people will lose more liberty.

If Bush stays President, obviously, the government will get larger and more powerful and more expensive and the people will lose more liberty.

Screw both the Democrats and the Republicans, as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to cast my vote for liberty. In the best of all possible worlds, the election will be a close one, and the number of liberty votes (not necessarily Libertarian votes: there is more than one liberty party) will be bigger than the difference. That may well not happen, but if it does, the losers will be looking at the data and scratching their chins. "Hmm...I wonder what would have happened if we had managed to attract all those liberty votes."

But I understand exactly what you mean about Lieberman not being able to get away with the same sort of stuff Bush has been doing. True, the Democrats will whine, "What's your problem with this legislation? You didn't mind when your guy did it!" But the Republicans are pretty good spoilers.

You know, that's an interesting point. Somehow, the Republicans have gotten the reputation of being the party that wants to take away our liberties a little more slowly--which seems counterintuitive now. Certainly Clinton desecrated the White House and the office of President more heinously than anyone before him; but in eight years he didn't do half as much damage to the Constitution as Bush did by signing two laws.

I wonder if the source for that reputation is simply the fact that the Republicans haven't been in power for so long: they've always had to fight the Democrats. Both parties strive for more government and less liberty; but if the Democrats are in power and the Republicans are fighting them, then it looks like the Republicans are opposed to more government and less liberty, even though they're actually only opposed to the Democrats.

When the Republicans have power, though, they can take the bit in their teeth and run with it.

Hmm. Something to think about.

I think I hear a black helicipter.... Look out!!!!

Actually, that's a bad example these days.

Did you hear what happened in Brownsville TX a couple of years ago? The Army decided to do a practice assault on an abandoned building (using black helicopters, among other things) to brush up on their urban warfare skills, but neglected to tell the Brownsville folks about it.

So you have Texans (on the Mexican border) hearing gunfire and helicopters and looking out the window to see guys running around in black assault gear. From what I remember, no Army guys actually got plugged by the good citizens of Brownsville, but it was still an embarrassment.

Anyway, it turns out that the government really does use black helicopters, so reference to them for purposes of scorn and ridicule has lost much of its potency.

These days, if you wish to make fun of liberty advocates, especially liberty advocates given to conspiracy theory, it's generally considered more effective to accuse them of wearing tinfoil hats--you know, to shield their brains from the government mind-control rays. You might refer to them derisively as the "Tinfoil Brigade," for example, or exclaim in mock terror that it looks like they're down to their last roll of tinfoil.

There are even more effective ways of ridiculing liberty advocates, of course, but most of the really good ones tend to require at least a rudimentary facility for abstract thought.

I like the tin hat deal, almost as much as Rush Limbaugh's kook test..

First of all, I see a different outcome than others do. I believe the answer will be a political one rather than one involving an armed confrontation between the citizens and the government.

I believe we as a nation have gone astray from the intent the Founding Fathers set forth in the Constitution, but we are still free enough to eventually wander back onto the right path via the voting booth. We voted ourselves into this mess and we still can vote our way out of it. It may take twice as long, but we can do it.

We survived the worst scum to ever infest the White House,klinton and we are pretty damned resillient as a nation to survive that.

I'm put in mind of a quote attributed to Winston Churchill: "America can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all the other possibilities."

Anyway let's look at some of the things that might make some look like kooky conspiracy theorists as alluded to by Tee.

The Patriot Act

Homeland Security Act

When combined these measures have all the ingredients for the most extensive and sophisticated police state ever known to man.

In the New York Times William Safire writes, "Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend - all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as 'a virtual, centralized grand database."

"To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you - passports, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the FBI, your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance - and you have the supersnoop's dream: a 'Total Information Awareness' about every U.S. citizen."

This report below is from Chuck Baldwin, who gives credit to the A P. Some may choose to discount this because he is a preacher that believes in the Constitution. After all how could anyone believe a religious zealot? Maybe I forgot to wear my tinfoil hat and as a result a Catholic (me) has fallen under the influence of a Baptist preacher. I have not seen the original. Would it be reasonable to take the word of a Baptist preacher without seeing it myself? Please feel free to correct any of the following if it is inaccurate. It is pretty much in line with what I have read from other sources.

The Associated Press provided the following list of some of the fundamental liberties that have been lost under Bush:

*FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.

*FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once- public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.

*FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

*RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

*FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

*RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

*RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

I'm beginning to see Tee's point though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, anyone that believes the government intends to do the things it says it will do in the Patriot Act and The homeland Security Act must be a KOOK.

Oh, I forgot to mention the TIPS program where citizens are encouraged by the president to spy on each other.

Yep, a person must be crazy to believe what's already become LAW.

There is a difference between a conspiracy and an agenda whereas I can't see that much difference between a blue helicopter and a black one, They all look alike to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

red

Personally, I can't believe he or the media thinks he even has a snow balls chance in hell.

Granted these are prejudicial bias', and I'm only listing them. I'm not saying I support or retort them. But we live in an imperfect society.

1. The guys looks. He looks, acts, and has a voice of a whimp. This is the 60 second America. Image is everything.

2. He's from Connecticut. The "bedroom of NYC" home of Bill and Hillary. NYC - hated by everyone west of the Mississippi, most of the SE (except for Fla.) and whats left of New Hampshire!

3. He played second fiddle (and was willing to do it again) to the biggest (and sorest) loser this century: The Algore.

4. He's a Jew. Look how long it took to put a catholic in the WH. Are the people ready to break the ceiling again? With all the anti semitism that exists in the country, and the fact that Israel sucks up $$$$$ from us annually, and then spies on us. That probably'll stick in the craw of a few individuals.

5. Did I mention he's a Socialist? Although he's tring to talk himself up as a "moderate"

6. Is the nation ready for a first lady named Hadassah ?

Don't get too het up when the sheeple resist being evangelized. They will eventually come to believe.

Remember--when it comes to explaining the benefits of liberty, we've got the mailed fist and jackboot of the US government on our side.

One day, we'll all be either slaves or felons.

A vote for Libertarian,might as well be a vote for the DemocRats.

Bush, a republican, has set the constitution back more in two years, than Klinton did in 8! With friends like that in the republican party, we sure can't afford many enemies.

I'll vote third party even if Hitlery Klinton is on the democrat ticket! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Maybe if enough of us did, the republicans would wake up and support the constitution, instead of eroding it slowly.
7mm

I'd love to hear you explain that...

Barak;

You gotta admit that Bush is acting an awful lot like FDR. Take away rights in order for the Government to make me safe???? Let me keep my rights, I'll take care of my own safety.

He's got me stumped with the U. of Mich. thing though. I hope he planned on it by announcing on MLK's birthday just to burn J.J.'s ass!

7mm, I agree.. I will vote for one of the alternative party's candidates (more than likely Libertarian) in the next national election.

The only time a political party even considers changes to the platform is after a stunning loss. I've said it before, only the losers reform, the winner repeats the winning strategy, and they then add more of what they believe were the ingredients that helped them win.

In the last presidential and midterm elections, it was promises by the Republicans to expand socialist programs that seemed to be in the forefront.

The end result of a win by either traditional party is a much expanded social services government complete with incremental losses of Liberty.

Besides, when the socialist democrats edge out their slower cousins at the polls, they are under intense scrutiny from the Republicans and all flavors of independents.

red

Red........

I don't think we are gonna have to worry about him winning....

We have a President with a strong will and conviction.....He will win again.....

Besides....Lieberman is like a "jellyfish"......NO SPINE!!!!!!

Can you imagine how bad the U.S. would be laughed at if he was to win the Presdiency?????

What a joke he is!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

HT, He sure wouldn't inspire confidence. that's for sure

red

Trouble is that we lose either way. Bush turned out to be a RINO. Welcome to the United Socialist States of Amerika. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
7mm

Barak, IF Comrad Hillary Klinton becomes President I bet you would be one of the first to gripe. The Republicians are not perfect BUT compared to the DemocRats they are great.. I too am nervous about some of these new laws since 9-11 BUT can you imagine what it would be like if Gore was Pres and the DemocRats had control of the Senate and House? I shudder at the thought!


God Bless America!

I fully expect that Hillary! will be President sometime in the next few years. Maybe Gore and Gephardt too. Lieberman? Not a chance in you-know-where. As for griping, when it comes to politics I'm always one of the first to gripe. One of the last, too.


Why do you say that? Can you name one significant difference in principle between the Republicans and the Democrats? Significant, now. I haven't been able to come up with one for the last few years.


Absolutely! First, Gore would have tossed a few cruise missiles at piles of rock in Afghanistan and declared victory. Second, he would never have gotten away with the USA PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Bill, because Republicans would have been screaming bloody murder. (Apparently simply because they didn't think of it first.) And third, Gore wouldn't be wasting time, money, lives, and international credibility on a war with Iraq. (He'd be avoiding war for the wrong reasons, of course, but at least he'd be avoiding it.)

And of course it's your prerogative to choose whether or not to answer the original question (explain why "A vote for Libertarian,might as well be a vote for the DemocRats"), but let the record show that your choice to ignore it did not go unnoticed.

T300W........

I agree with ya.....Like you said....US REPUBLICAN'S are perfect....But, to think of what it might have been like if Gore had won.......That is just plain SCARY!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And, as far as HILLARY getting in office....IF/WHEN that occurs....It will surely be the start of the demise of the United States Economic system....And, God knows what else....Those Clinton's are in it for one thing.....THEMSELVES!!!!! And nothing else....

The Democrats will always try to be POLITICALLY CORRECT!!!!!!! That is one of the biggest problems in this country.....They will NEVER ever admit to anything that US REPUBLICANS have done as a good thing....All they want to do is twist things, to make themselves look good....They have succeeded in doing so with many American's.....MOST American's are just not informed enought with all the issues that occur in Politics.....I, in no way am a Political Brain, but I do get the jist of what is going on.....

I think BUSH has given Sadaam more than ample time to comply with the UN.....He hasn't done so yet.....Now, Sadaam gets on T.V. and says that if/when the U.S. attacks, that Iraq will win the war....That IDIOT is just asking for it.....

George....Please accomodate him.....BLOW THEM UP....NOW!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Sorry I got off track.....

Lieberman = "WIMP".......

7MM.......

Bush is a RINO???

I've never heard this one.....

Explain for me please.....

Thanks...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />