Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Expanding vs Penetrating Premium Bullets

Looking to work up some new loads for my 270, maybe to take out west next fall, but definitely for use on eastern whitetails this fall. For general deer hunting, do you prefer bullets like the Barnes TTSX/ Nosler AccuBond, or more violent expanders like the Hornady SST/ Nosler Ballistic tip? I have some 130gr BTs on their way here, and this past season I used SSTs and Interlocks. Quick kills, but a lot of meat damage. What say ye on the topic?

TTSX light for caliber,Ballistic tip heavy for caliber,or Partition. Not too much for frag bullets. I've seen the posts and read the debates. Just not my cup of tea. I load SSTs for a friend of mine. Some nasty wound channels. He loves them.

I generally like to take the middle ground and stick to stuff like Core-Lokts, Power Points and interlocks. They've always worked good for me.

Nosler partitions expand and penetrate reliably, and have been doing so for 65 years. Every bullet maker wishes to have a bullet emulate it, but very few do.

Yep. One of the few sure bets in life is a Nosler Partition...

The best bet I've seen is Barnes... I quit running partitions since I have shot so many barnes.

Generally speaking I find them more accurate and more consistently reliable. But if they were no longer made I'd go back to the partitions.

And for something like a TTSX and a Partition you get both... expanding and penetrating.....

Partition, Accubond, Barnes, or the Trophy tipped Bear Claws. Any will work great.

Keep it simple.

If Partitions will shoot good groups with your rifle go with them and worry about other things.

I've used lots of cup and core big game bullets, like Hornady, Sierra, as well as Cor-Loks on deer, as well as the Barnes TSX and the Nosler Partition. All of them expand plenty fast enough for quick kills. The TSX works even better if driven fast(er). I use the premiums for deer because they hold together better, or so it seems when shooting through cover. They may tumble or lose some of their penetrating ability, but they do seem to make more effective wounds than the C&C bullets which can lose their cores. I admit this isn't solid research material, but it's the best I've been able to determine. E

Depends on caliber, but for 243/6mm I use 87gr VLDs. Like lightening struck em. Everything else is cup and core. Just ordered some partitions which I never used before, but imagine theyll be like cup and core. Most of my shots are under 300, with the majority under 80. Its thick most places I hunt.

This

VLD is not cup and core?

I use to use Partitions almost exclusively on game until I tried a Barnes TSX. Then I tried the Barnes TTSX. It kills like lightning and always penetrates all the way through, regardless of angle or what gets in the way.

Now, for hunting I pretty much just use Nosler Ballistic Tips and Barnes TTSX. I like the BTs for their higher BC and I shoot them for open-country, smaller game like mule deer and pronghorn. I use the TTSX for elk, for deer in the woods and for combo hunts.

I have not killed anything with a Barnes LRX but I am thinking it may be the very best "one bullet for everything" answer out there. I am going to be trying them out later this year in Washington for deer, in Colorado for mule deer and elk and in Montana for elk, all out of my 6.5 Creedmoor.

I've had mixed success with the TSX. Went to New Zealand and shot 36 big game animals with the 25 caliber 100 gr TSX and experienced poor performance in that the bullets passed through leaving small exit holes. My experience with the 7mm 140 gr X, TSX, and TTSX have been far more positive. What I found on close examination of the 25 verse 7 mm bullets was the diameter of the 7 mm hollow point was much larger.

I understand the small exit hole with the 25 caliber can not be viewed as a failure; I see it as more as non-optimal performance. I view optimal terminal bullet performance to be delivering the largest wound channel and exiting.

I have never found a rifle that shoots Partitions exceptionally well. In my experience I find them to be one of the least accurate bullets. I used Partitions for many years before moving west where the shooting distances tend to be much longer and where accuracy needs are higher.

I'm too old to chase elk, and premium bullets are not needed for deer and hogs I hunt now. I am changing over to Sierra bullets (one of the GameKings or Pro Hunters) depending on which shoots best in a particular rifle. I'm reloading for a 3rd rifle now and I'm getting the best and most consistent groups I've ever gotten with any bullet with the exception of a Barnes TTSX in one rifle. I've gone heavier for caliber in my 358 Win and 25-06 and will soon be trying 160 grain Sierra's in a 7mm-08. I've not used Sierra's on large game yet, but they are just used by too many hunters to not have decent performance on game. Like any bullet, they may not perform 100% of the time, but I'm not too concerned.

Sure, but much more violent expansion, as in cant find schit...lol. So I separate to 2.

Have you noticed the "going in a couple of inches before blowing up" VLD phenomenon? It works quite well for the 168 grain version at 308 Winchester speed.

really depends on size of deer and or sex ,example northern Minnesota or Canada many adult bucks weigh 250 lbs. sometimes more you would want Nosler partition,Swift a-frame or a barnes x bullet,small deer anything should work out of your 270 win.

Sometimes. I shoot shoulders hence the not much left. Only 2 times did I see a bone with a pencil hole, the rest a total wreck. Bang flop, never an exit. 12 deer so maybe not that great a comparison, but thats what ive been seein. 87gr is light and moving fast in 243, plus the distance is rarely over 100.

I agree with this. I want tougher bullets when speeds climb up north of 3,000fps and am fine with cup/core bullets when they are a bit heavy for caliber and going slower.

I disagree: Hornady's cup and core 25 caliber 100 SP at 3500 fps works excellent on deer and antelope. Blows big holes and provides DRT performance.

If you like ‘em, better stock up. Hornady quit making them

In a 270 at 3000+fps, I'd lean towards something tougher. I like accubonds and etips. I'm far from an expert but I tend to go for a tougher bullet after 3000fps. Some of the more fragile offerings can make a mess at those speeds

Agree 100%

I have absolutely no need for a bonded bullet for deer, been there done that...

I'm absolutely in the camp for high BC "cup and core" bullets (VLD's, Scenars) in the 2900-3000 MV range near and far for up to and including elk.

Just this past year at 200+ yards I had a 168 VLD started at 2800+ exit a quartering-to bull elk over a thousand pounds....

Medium velocity impacts with medium expansion bullets work very well on medium and big critters....

My Dad hunted big game all over North America and he liked to say "in this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and partitions."

I’m also looking to use a load with the “premium” bullets for NC black bear, and elk should I ever get the chance to go west again. If I find a good one with something like the TTSX, that’s likely what I’ll use for those animals also.

On another note, has anyone found that when they work up a good load with these bullets that they’re able to switch to cheaper ammo for practice without having to re-zero the rifle?

The only way you will know RE switching ammo is to load and shoot and see what the impact is.

Not even same weight bullets at same speeds impact the same on the target.

I would not do that if practicing for longer shots, unless you match the wind drift/drop issues.

But for short range chip shot stuff of like 300 and in, there isn't a lot of difference.

And FWIW cross training does worlds of good. 100 rounds on the rimfire every other day or so vs 20 on the centerfire once a month, I"d take teh rimfire every last time...

I like to eat deer so I don't like a bullet that expands violently and bruises up meat. I like 2 holes so if they don't drop they leave a good blood trail so you can find them.

Shop around for bullets that works best for your application.I like a bullet that will put a deer down quickly and leave two holes.Good wound channel,but not overly excessive.I've used both bonded and cup and core.The bullets I've grown really fond of are,165&168gr Nosler Ballistic Tips out of my 30-06 and 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips out of my 7mag.

There are a lot of good comments posted here.
Hogwild7 is right on as is JGRaider.

Velocity is your friend when the bullet is flying, but can be a problem when it hits. 270s are fast. I love my 270s, but I agree that a tougher bullet is a better option. Not because deer are hard to kill, but as Hogwild said, I like to eat them.

I have found that 150 grain Partitions are a marriage made in Heaven for the 270. Doe antelope to bull moose, they work well. So are Barnes X bullets if your rifle is accurate with them

I love Ballistic Tips, too. They are perhaps my absolute favorite for deer and Pronghorn, although most of my experience with them has been the 120 grain in 6.5x284 and .260, the 130 grain in .270 Win, the 120 grain in 7-08 and 140 grain in .284 Win.

I am certainly going to load up some 120s to run through my 6.5 Creedmoor but I am also going to try the 140s. I’m going on a combo Mule Deer/elk hunt in Colorado this fall and that bullet might get the nod if it shoots lights out.

Yep, Hornady quite making them (25 caliber 100 gr SP) and I didn't get stocked up in time and only have enough for a couple of years. I'll find something else to use then.

My 280AI will group 140 TTSX with 139g Hornady at 100 yards.

I agree both the Partition and Accubonds are great bullets, but for me about all I shoot for BG is TTSX's, from .243 to 300 H&H, they've worked great on everything we've shot with them, less bloodshot meat and death happens plenty quick not to mention they've proven very accurate in our guns

For the last several years I have been going back and forth between 130 gr ETips and Partitions in my 270's. Both are quick and effective killers. The ETip usually produces far less bloodshot meat, you can nearly eat right up to the hole. Both produce great accuracy, but I can push the Partition a little faster. Logic says I should just use the ETips, but I have 40+ years experience with Partitions, with complete satisfaction, so I continue to sit on the fence.
This is easy as both bullets shoot to the same point of aim for me.

Stubborn. We get there as we age.

But if I was given a ballistic tip( I don't like them) that was as accurate as what I was using, hit the same point of impact basically, and killed as well but damaged less meat, I'd call myself a fool to not switch.

YMMV.

rost495,
I get confused between foolish and stubborn, but confess to having a strong dose of both, and likely getting worse as I perfect them.
Seems we are enjoying a proliferation of bullets that vary only in their degree of goodness.

If you use TTSX's on deer, you have also set your rifle for success on western game, as even the lightweights will offer enough penetration for deliberate shots.

Other premiums will work as everyone knows and plain old Hornady's only suffer from overlooked credentials in this area.
John

Stubborn.. we all have it.

Thankfully I see the light now and then. LOL.

For deer hunting I usually load either the Nosler Partitions or Accubonds, whichever shoots best out of each particular rifle. I do like the Nosler 120 Ballistic Tip in the 7mm-08, though. In the .270 Win. the most common bullet weight in factory ammo seems to be 130 gr., but I wouldn't hesitate to try to 140 gr. or 150 gr. to see how they perform in your rifle.

if you a hand loader tuff to beat swift bullets ,I like swift a-frames myself.

I'd shot a lot of deer and a couple of elk with the Partitions and they worked, but left very small exit diameter holes that didn't put much blood on the ground. I had too many of those last light where is the blood trail searches. The insides strained through my fingers, but the Partition back half is what was making the exit wound and I didn't like what I was seeing. Back before Barnes made the TTSX, I shot some deer with the regular TSX and my 7mm-08 wasn't pushing it fast enough to expand much. One deer had a quarter size hole through both lungs instead of the pulp that I was accustomed to seeing. Then I lost the only deer that I'd ever lost using that TSX, so never again. The last one fell at the shot with an SST Hornady which can be rather satisfying in a woods full of other hunters. Deer are only about a foot or less through the chest cavity, so expansion sooner with enough bullet weight gets my vote.

+1 To me it would be more difficult to find just about any bullet that would not work on deer.

I have had great bullet performance out of Barnes TTSX in My .300 Win rifles....I have seen too many ballistic tip bullets blow up on impact to ever trust them.........Hb

I don't encounter those 600 pound, armor plated deer where I hunt , so I'm typically using a cartridge based on a 308 case if not a straight 308. Ballistic Tips work great for me.

I'm liking these in the 270 win. 130 grain Trophy Bonded Tip. Water jug test @ 100 yards.

The SC DNR did a study on a large South Carolina plantation about deer rifles and bullets.....its been out a while. The conclusion was that standard soft points and ballistic tip type bullets were more likely to kill instantly as well as making deer easier to find when they ran compared to "penetrating premium bullets". Keep in mind that these are guys shooting from stands over looking food plots or roads as is common in the South. Also, the deer are going to run small compared to the north and midwest.


http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

I have always been a fan of Hornady Interlocks on deer. I killed over 150 white-tails with 100-grain Interlocks from my 6mm, right at 3000 fps and some more using a .308. .243, .260 and now 6.5 cm.. I killed a couple elk with 175 Interlocks, from my 7 mag, but switched to 160 Partitions and never looked back. It is your money, but unless you are planning to push them over 3000 fps, I would not consider a premium as necessary on deer. I have shot them at all angles and all ranges out to 450 or so, and have never had an issue with Interlocks not doing their jobs, or tearing up too much meat. Meat is not an issue, anyway, unless you shoot them through the hind quarters. I have rarely lost all of the meat off the front, by shooting the through the shoulders and lung shots are irrelevant, as there is nothing there anyway.

Another plus to the Interlocks, is that you can get them cheap and I have never once had a rifle that would not shoot them. I will NEVER shoot another SST. I had 150-grainers from a short .308 dynamite on small white-tail does and that was enough for me. I think that they are the worst bullet that Hornady makes, but they do shoot accurately, just like all Hornadys have for me..

I do like the interlocks, currently I have 150gr and 165gr Interlocks and 180gr SSTs in .308, also 130gr and 140gr Interlocks, along with 130gr Ballistic Tips in .277. In my 270, 130gr bullets are usually right around 3,000fps. In my 308 and 30-06 I have velocities all over the place depending on the individual load, but nothing I’ve seen faster than 2850. Plan on taking the 270 and 308 out west with me.

In relation to penetration versus expansion, according the Berger Bullets and some gun articles I have read, some of the Berger bullets are designed to penetrate a couple of inches, end then expand rapidly. Supposedly these bullets kill fast, specially lung/hear shots on deer. But I have no idea if the articles and advertisements are true, since I don't use Berger bullets nor hunt deer. Anyway, here is what Berger says about it, and its worth a look:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/

But, they won’t & never have in any of my rifles.

Same here.

Rifles are funny things I guess. I've never had one that didn't shoot partitions MOA or better.

Whatever the magic potion is, I don’t have it. If I did I would likely shoot nothing but PT’s.

Life was so much simpler when you went to the store and bought whatever was on the shelf and went out and shot a deer. And yes put me into the Interlock and partition camp. Especially like the partitions in 25 cal.

200gr Accubond .338 Win 100 yds Oryx hard quartering towards shot entered on shoulder and found bullet under hide in front of off side hip retained weight 130 gr also shot 2 large hogs with same and didn't recover the bullets just the hogs...I'm sold

Nice.......love those accubonds and I've had very similar performance and retention with the 7mm 140's and 160's. Great pics.

Beautiful rifle, too!

I have a total of one rifle that will shoot the partitions to MOA or better. Other than that, the majority get either the Accubond or Accubond LR put through them. Quarter to fifty-cent size exit holes. I've only caught one, that one after going through about 5 feet of an elk. It still broke through the pelvis and the off-side shoulder. Found it in the meat on the outside of the off-side shoulder. The one's that aren't using the AB are shooting Sierra Game Kings in various flavors. Oh, and the bonded solid base in only 2 rifles.

I'm just the opposite. Partitions seem to always shoot well while Accubonds are my nemesis. That's only a few rifles, but they are all the same. I really want Abs to shoot well. Then I get fed up and load up some TTSXs and they shoot lights out with no effort whatsoever...

Choose a bullet for the game you are shooting. I started shooting whitetail deer with a 270 in 1980. I shot standard cup and core bullets in 130 grain. Those bullets were all too hard and gave no expansion unless they were put through the bones of both shoulders. They left small exit holes which sealed up with fat and left no blood trails when punched through the chest. I soon tired of looking for my deer and switched to 130 ballistic tips. Every deer I shot from then on were DRT. Now I have killed a ton of whitetails and a few pronghorn with ballistic tips, 130 grain in 270, 100 grain in 25-06, 95 grain in 243, and 140 grain in 7 Rem Mag. Only recovered one 95 grain from a buck my son shot end to end as it was facing him. Also shot a lot of hogs with the same and none of them complained.

I did try the 120 Ballistic Tips in the 7 Mag and was none to impressed. Those did not expand. I learned they were given thicker jackets for some reason (was told per request of metallic silhouette shooters). But the 120 grain V-Max and the 140 Ballistic Tips performed wonderfully. The only experience I had with blood shot ruined meat from a ballistic tip was with the 55 grain out of a 220 Swift. Stopped using those for deer and switched to the 63 grain Sierra which performs perfectly.

Now that I live in elk and mule deer country I have loaded 160 Partitions in the 7 Rem Mag. I used it on a big bull buffalo in 2010 and was very impressed with it. It ought to work on elk. I switched my 270 load to the 130 accubonds for mule deer and I have the 54 cal muzzleloader ready as well. If I draw an antelope tag the 25-06 and 243 with ballistic tips are good to go as is the 50 cal muzzleloader. Looking forward to giving them a go.

I hunt deer in the same conditions and I agree that fast expanding bullets like ballistic tips and Bergers tend to put deer down quicker than the tougher bullets like Barnes and Partitions. However, there's no free lunch, everything comes with a price and after shooting truckloads of deer with ballistic tips I now shoot Barnes TTSX's. The ballistic tips were great until they weren't and I had a few blow ups on bone resulting in long tracking jobs and a bit of gruesomeness. 98% of the time they work great and a deer lying in it's footprints is always easier to find than one that runs a few yards. The TTSX shot deer tend to run a little bit but the results are more predictable, they always penetrate and the deer always die. I don't worry about shot angle nearly as much anymore.

Nothing's perfect, but I've come to prefer bullets that hold together better and penetrate at any angle at any velocity instead of the quicker expanding ones. Berger makes great bullets but I always get a chuckle at the claim that they "penetrate a couple of inches then expand". Basically that means "they're a grenade" and it's presented as if they were designed that way when really it's the byproduct of a target bullet design with a bit of hollow airspace behind the meplat. Bullets that grenade kill quickly and I shoot a lot of bergers for fun, no doubt they account for a lot of game but I just prefer bullets to hold together better.

Crow hunter,

It doesn't sound like you've actually used Bergers on deer. Is that correct?

Anyone use the 115gr 6mm Berger Hunting on game yet?

Remember the following: lung shots on deer. The story about the Berger VLD is not only told by the Berger's advertisements, but in hunting articles. As I mentioned before I hunt moose in Alaska where I live, and like you use bullets that hold together. I use the .338-caliber 225-grain TTS-X, although I have also used the 250-grain Partition, 250-grain A-Frame, and the 230-grain FS (not longer produced).

I don't know anything about deer hunting, other than most hunters not wanting for a bullet to pencil through deer, thus my reason for bringing up the Berger bullet.

Funny things yes but stuff seems to trend for folks. I have only dabbled with partitions because of initial poor groups. Go figure.

EFW gifted me all sorts of 6mm bullets and all was hit an miss including partitions, nbt and Speer of various weights.

Sierra's, as crazy as it sounds, light or heavy, hp, bt or flat base, all seem to just shoot better than other stuff. Even different weights in the same rifle. heavy f twist.

I know I am counter culture in this regard and because I load mild.

++++++++ on the interlocks, 165gr here

I went to the range today, took some hand loaded 308 with 150s and 165s and different amounts of Varget to push ‘em. Most of the groups were consistently about 1MOA but I did get one group of just under .5MOA with the 150gr Interlocks and 46gr of Varget. That loads a keeper. I’m hoping the 270 will find a load it likes with the Ballistic Tips.

"Sierra's, as crazy as it sounds, light or heavy, hp, bt or flat base, all seem to just shoot better than other stuff. Even different weights in the same rifle. heavy f twist. "

It's all I have been using since I started handloading.

That is a good load, but I settled on CFE223, in the .308, with the 150s and I will never go back to Varget, Re 15 etc. for that bullet.