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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
I am aware that they make different models with different quality features at different prices. What I want to know is which is the bottom dollar model that you trust as far as tracking and durability goes????? Like a super sniper from SWFA as an example
Thanks to answer your question none of them. They are marketing company. most of their stuff is chinese or Philippine manufacture. I bought a brand new PST 2 and it showed 3/4 MOA of reticle shift at 20 MOA of up elevation. I returned the scope and got another brand new one and the second scope did the same thing, EXACTLY. why wasn't this caught at the factory? the truth is they aren't being checked. If you want it checked I supposed it will cost you double the money with a nightforce. which I did end up buying another of and ran the same test and it tracked 100% the reason some have great luck with vortex is frankly most people don't shoot all that much, this is in despite of what they may claim. It also depends on what you do with the scope. if you set it and forget it, there are plenty of optics that can handle that. crank knobs better spend the big bucks. the other issue I have with vortex is brand management. you go spend $100's on their optics then they change the model 2 years later and your resale is horrible. I guess who wants to spend money on chinese made junk? if you want decent scopes they need to be europe or japan manufacture. They may have been true some time ago, but times have changed in the optics world... I once bought a scope at a garage sale just around the corner from home. Guy had run over it with a truck. Leupold replaced it... I sorta knew the former owner so I brought it back after it was replaced and asked if he wanted to buy it back. He did. Seems easy to figure any number of angles to the same goal.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,738
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,738 |
I am a "set and forget" scope user. I was a fanatical shooter for 35 years and now just a hunter. I am an old guy and like my rifles to weigh about 7 to 7.5 lbs. with scope. I've had to use McEdge stocks to get some of them there. I'll be damned if I am going to put 2 lbs. plus of scope on top of them just to get "more" reliable tracking. To me it really unbalances a rifle to put that much weight on TOP of it. There is also another disadvantage to a heavy scope. The weight is hard on the mounts, rings and scope internals during recoil. So that heavy scope BETTER be shock proof. I refuse to mount a scope that weighs much more than 16 ounces on one of my rifles. And price, I just can't afford to spend more than 5 to 6 hundred dollars on a scope. They don't last forever and probably won't last longer doing what it did out of the box than a $500 scope did when it came out of the box. And resale value. I doubt any scope can fetch much more than 50 percent of it's retail value (considering inflation) after 5 years. I don't doubt all of the stories of tracking issues with Leupolds that I've read on these forums. I hope Leupold takes notice and improves in this area. But, Leupold is the undisputed king in the lightweight scope with good glass, at an affordable price field. Any of my variable scopes that I replace will be replaced by fixed power glass, whether it is Leupold, Meopta or whoever is making good fixed power scopes. And, I'll just keep tapping the side of the turrets when I sight in a rifle. RJ
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487 |
Its the best for the price, that allows those shooters to get into the sport.
Decreasing marginal utility, and decreased demand elasticity. Using big words you do not understand is usually a bad move... Don't know what you mean by bad move. Dumb statement. Simple demand and supply. demand elasticity based on increasing numbers entering the market . scopes are just like any other commodity. Shot in competitive world for 20 years, you don't know schit about it.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
I have vortex PsT gen -2. So far it is a bad ass scope. Love the view, the reticle and the control. Hopefully the internals hold up, but so far so good. Actually like it better than my NXS, but the Nightforce is proven.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
Its the best for the price, that allows those shooters to get into the sport.
Decreasing marginal utility, and decreased demand elasticity. Using big words you do not understand is usually a bad move... Don't know what you mean by bad move. Dumb statement. Simple demand and supply. demand elasticity based on increasing numbers entering the market . scopes are just like any other commodity. Shot in competitive world for 20 years, you don't know schit about it. I have zero interest in disabusing you of your fantasies...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487 |
Its the best for the price, that allows those shooters to get into the sport.
Decreasing marginal utility, and decreased demand elasticity. Using big words you do not understand is usually a bad move... Don't know what you mean by bad move. Dumb statement. Simple demand and supply. demand elasticity based on increasing numbers entering the market . scopes are just like any other commodity. Shot in competitive world for 20 years, you don't know schit about it. I have zero interest in disabusing you of your fantasies... Disabusing whoa and you had trouble with demand and supply Come on tell me what you know about competition shooting
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487 |
Lots of comments on this forum about wanting a scope that will just hold zero.
IIRC Burris, made one in the 80,90s after sighting it in, it had a small cap that was removed and a "locking screw" was tightened to lock the zero.
Not sure why it didn't dominate the market. Maybe there is one in a garage somewhere.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,300
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,300 |
Lots of comments on this forum about wanting a scope that will just hold zero.
IIRC Burris, made one in the 80,90s after sighting it in, it had a small cap that was removed and a "locking screw" was tightened to lock the zero.
Not sure why it didn't dominate the market. Maybe there is one in a garage somewhere. we shoot yardages from 100yards to 500 yards in the winter sometimes below zero too usally 20-25 shooters off cement bench`s ,we all are moving are knobs up and down so we are on target at all yardages I use a niteforce my scope works just fine ,most shooters I know use niteforce ,some use leupold another fine scope and those are the two scopes that always win. as a gun dealer some asked me about Vortex and just tell them about these rifle shoots we have in the winter. if Vortex wants to give me a Vortex scope to try in these shoots I would but I won`t buy one yet nor do I believe a Vortex is worth it,too take a chance in Vortex scope hunting or in a rifle shoot on my coin
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,487 |
Lots of comments on this forum about wanting a scope that will just hold zero.
IIRC Burris, made one in the 80,90s after sighting it in, it had a small cap that was removed and a "locking screw" was tightened to lock the zero.
Not sure why it didn't dominate the market. Maybe there is one in a garage somewhere. we shoot yardages from 100yards to 500 yards in the winter sometimes below zero too usally 20-25 shooters off cement bench`s ,we all are moving are knobs up and down so we are on target at all yardages I use a niteforce my scope works just fine ,most shooters I know use niteforce ,some use leupold another fine scope and those are the two scopes that always win. as a gun dealer some asked me about Vortex and just tell them about these rifle shoots we have in the winter. if Vortex wants to give me a Vortex scope to try in these shoots I would but I won`t buy one yet nor do I believe a Vortex is worth it,too take a chance in Vortex scope hunting or in a rifle shoot on my coin Me too Pete, Ill take anything thats new and paid for.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533 |
I am a "set and forget" scope user. I was a fanatical shooter for 35 years and now just a hunter. I am an old guy and like my rifles to weigh about 7 to 7.5 lbs. with scope. I've had to use McEdge stocks to get some of them there. I'll be damned if I am going to put 2 lbs. plus of scope on top of them just to get "more" reliable tracking. To me it really unbalances a rifle to put that much weight on TOP of it. There is also another disadvantage to a heavy scope. The weight is hard on the mounts, rings and scope internals during recoil. So that heavy scope BETTER be shock proof. I refuse to mount a scope that weighs much more than 16 ounces on one of my rifles. And price, I just can't afford to spend more than 5 to 6 hundred dollars on a scope. They don't last forever and probably won't last longer doing what it did out of the box than a $500 scope did when it came out of the box. And resale value. I doubt any scope can fetch much more than 50 percent of it's retail value (considering inflation) after 5 years. I don't doubt all of the stories of tracking issues with Leupolds that I've read on these forums. I hope Leupold takes notice and improves in this area. But, Leupold is the undisputed king in the lightweight scope with good glass, at an affordable price field. Any of my variable scopes that I replace will be replaced by fixed power glass, whether it is Leupold, Meopta or whoever is making good fixed power scopes. And, I'll just keep tapping the side of the turrets when I sight in a rifle. RJ Amen!
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
Lots of comments on this forum about wanting a scope that will just hold zero.
IIRC Burris, made one in the 80,90s after sighting it in, it had a small cap that was removed and a "locking screw" was tightened to lock the zero.
Not sure why it didn't dominate the market. Maybe there is one in a garage somewhere. we shoot yardages from 100yards to 500 yards in the winter sometimes below zero too usally 20-25 shooters off cement bench`s ,we all are moving are knobs up and down so we are on target at all yardages I use a niteforce my scope works just fine ,most shooters I know use niteforce ,some use leupold another fine scope and those are the two scopes that always win. as a gun dealer some asked me about Vortex and just tell them about these rifle shoots we have in the winter. if Vortex wants to give me a Vortex scope to try in these shoots I would but I won`t buy one yet nor do I believe a Vortex is worth it,too take a chance in Vortex scope hunting or in a rifle shoot on my coin Niteforce?
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,963
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,963 |
The company I work for has done all concrete work for Vortex's new digs here in Wisconsin. Quite a few of the guys I know are running Vortex optics on their rifles. Haven't heard of any of them having any problems with them, of course not many are doing any twisting. Personally, I don't care for the ocular on the Vortex scopes I have looked at, so I'll just stick with Leupold/Redfield, Weaver(Classic fixed), and Burris(FFII).
Guess I'm not trendy.
Mauser Rescue Society
Founder, President, and Chairman
I don't always shoot Mausers, but when I do...I prefer VZ-24s.
jdi do píči
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6 |
I've never been interested in Vortex anything, as there is always something that is equal to, or performs better for less money. Since they're all Chinese stuff now, I'm even less impressed if that's possible.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
JG, honestly...there is nothing in the PST-2 price range with its features. (Assuming it performs). To get high speed dials, zero stop, and illumination for $1000 is about half the competition.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,385
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,385 |
JG, honestly...there is nothing in the PST-2 price range with its features. (Assuming it performs). To get high speed dials, zero stop, and illumination for $1000 is about half the competition. The Athlon Ares is a similar scope and the Ares ETR coming this Summer will be a great scope
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972 |
JG, honestly...there is nothing in the PST-2 price range with its features. (Assuming it performs). To get high speed dials, zero stop, and illumination for $1000 is about half the competition. The Athlon Ares is a similar scope and the Ares ETR coming this Summer will be a great scope Are they both Chinese made?
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,385
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,385 |
yes, they are both made in China. The only Athlon scope from Japan is the Cronus
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6 |
JG, honestly...there is nothing in the PST-2 price range with its features. (Assuming it performs). To get high speed dials, zero stop, and illumination for $1000 is about half the competition. I will absolutely take your word for it dog.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,255 Likes: 6 |
JG, honestly...there is nothing in the PST-2 price range with its features. (Assuming it performs). To get high speed dials, zero stop, and illumination for $1000 is about half the competition. The Athlon Ares is a similar scope and the Ares ETR coming this Summer will be a great scope 34mm tube.....no bueno.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
JG, haven't put enough rounds through it yet, but so far so good. Believe me, I'm not drinking to vortex koolaid, but if this scope holds I'm really impressed.
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