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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822 |
...The 6.5x280AI sounds a lot like my 25-06 A! 7977 works really well for me. Thanks, Jim! That's good to hear. Any particular bullet weights in your 25-06 AI that prefer the 7977? Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Joined: May 2016
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,440 Likes: 13 |
Been using the light weight stuff so far Ed.
85 grain Balistic tips and 90 grain BlitzKings.
I was going to try some 8133 when it comes out too.
I am MAGA.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Speer's new data for the 7x57 shows a lot of data using Alliant powders, one of which is Power Pro 4000. Has anyone used that and, if so, what are your thoughts?
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
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Support your local Friends of NRA - supporting Youth Shooting Sports for more than 20 years.
Neither guns nor Liberals have a brain.
Whatever you do, Pay it Forward. - Kids are the future of the hunting and shooting world.
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Campfire Tracker
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Sakoluvr,
Good point, and it also might be pertinent to point out that while all the older IMR powders aren't considered temperature-resistant in the same was as the Hodgdon Extremes, temp-resistance also depends on some other factors, including load density and primer. I still use IMR4350 in a few loads, because I tested them and found they performed very well in cold.
Other IMR4350 loads, however, were definitely affected, the reason I switched to H4350 in them, and now IMR4451. Which loads do you still use IMR in John?
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,084 Likes: 2 |
My primary contact at Hodgdon recently told me the H4350 shortage is mostly due to the popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor. H4350 is considered its ideal powder. I had a very accurate out of the box Savage model 11 in 6.5 Creed until a girl I go to church with talked me out of it for a deer rifle. After trying several loads with it including H4350, it exhibited superior accuracy with Varget and either 120 Barnes or 123 Scenar. I load for a .243 Savage 10 with a 22 inch barrel that seems to produce better accuracy and speed with IMR vs. H in 4350. The .243 is my daughters deer hunting rifle and is always loaded with Nosler partition 100 grain.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I had a very accurate out of the box Savage model 11 in 6.5 Creed until a girl I go to church with talked me out of it for a deer rifle.
I think that would be a good GIRL gun. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
I had a very accurate out of the box Savage model 11 in 6.5 Creed until a girl I go to church with talked me out of it for a deer rifle.
I think that would be a good GIRL gun. Jerry Quit compensating Jerry.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
m m I just can't resist an open door to gig someone. I can't help myself. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,852
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
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Re16 has proven to be a good substitute for the 4350s. My 30-06 loves the stuff under a 180. In general, I haven't acheived the same accuracy with the new Enduron powders as I did with the standard H series. I managed to squirrel away 10 lbs of H4350. I also have a good quantity of Re 16 as well. I start with those 2 in that burn rate. Usually one or the other, sometimes both, produce MOA or better.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
m m I just can't resist an open door to gig someone. I can't help myself. Jerry I know, I poke a little fun all the time too.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,139 Likes: 10 |
bellydeep,
Mainly I still use IMR4350 with 300-grain bullets in the .375 H&H. My Mark X .375 was the first rifle I took to Africa, over a quarter of a century ago. It really liked IMR4350 with 300 Partitions back then, and still does now. Have tried a bunch of other powders, from Varget and RL-15 to Big Game, H4350 and Hunter, but none have outperformed IMR4350 in accuracy, velocity and temperature-resistance in that particular application.
Have also yet to encounter a 7mm Remington Magnum that doesn't really shoot well with IMR4350 and 150-grain bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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bellydeep,
Mainly I still use IMR4350 with 300-grain bullets in the .375 H&H. My Mark X .375 was the first rifle I took to Africa, over a quarter of a century ago. It really liked IMR4350 with 300 Partitions back then, and still does now. Have tried a bunch of other powders, from Varget and RL-15 to Big Game, H4350 and Hunter, but none have outperformed IMR4350 in accuracy, velocity and temperature-resistance in that particular application.
Have also yet to encounter a 7mm Remington Magnum that doesn't really shoot well with IMR4350 and 150-grain bullets. Not using it for the ‘06 though? And how is it for temp stability in the 7mm?
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Thanks a heap, John. About the time I've gotten all my IMR and H 4350 loads all figured out, you say there's some new and better powders. We need to call for hearings, and I am convinced you're colluding. Rant over, now what would you think about 4451 for my 7X57/7X57Rs and my 8X57/8X57Rs? Low pressures are especially important in the rimmed loadings.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,139 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,139 Likes: 10 |
bellydeep,
Haven't tested it for temp-stability in the 7mm RM, because I don't hunt with it. Instead it's a rifle I'm obligated to own because of being a gun writer: Since the 7mm Remington Magnum is so popular, I have to have one on hand to try stuff out.
While I have hunted some with the round, have never been crazy about it, and in fact have ended up eventually selling all my previous 7mm RM's. Got this one because it appeared on a local gun-store's rack at such a cheap price I couldn't pass it up, and the rifle shot well enough to keep for testing. But I may just send it down the road too, because I rarely get questions on loading the 7mm RM anymore.
One thing I noticed here in Montana was when the WSM's appeared, a BUNCH of used 7mm RM's showed up on the used racks. When I asked the guys at Capital Sports & Western Wear about 'em, they said the 7RM's were just about all trade-ins on WSM's.
That's not happening as much anymore, but what I have seen is a lot of former 7RM fans are either going to larger-caliber magnums, whether the .300 Winchester or various beltless magnums, or smaller cartridges that don't kick as much, whether older rounds like the .270 or newer ones like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Plus, the generation of hunters that bought 7mm RM's by the zillions from the 1960's through 1980's is dying off, and today there's far more cartridge-competition out there.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,139 Likes: 10 |
Bruce,
I don't know if IMR4451 is "better" than H4350, though it does include a decoppering agent, and is double-based so a little more velocity is possible, at least theoretically. But it can be found and purchased far more easily than H4350.
I don't have a 7x57R or 8x57R, but 4451 works fine in my 6.5x57R drilling, which you're so familiar with. I was using H4350, but as with all my other rifles where H4350 had become the standard powder over the past 20 years, I eventually had to load some more ammo, and 4451 worked great, producing the same accuracy and velocity with basically the same powder charge. It's not that IMR4451 is superior to H4350, but its THERE.
During the Obama shortages I grew REALLY weary during the "shortages" of having to be constantly on the lookout for rimfire ammo and centerfire components that had suddenly become scarce, whether in local stores or on the Internet. I did stock up a lot of stuff when it appeared, to the point where I rarely buy anything these days, but some stuff remained scarce even after Trump was elected, including .17 Mach 2 ammo and H4350.
I solved the .17 Mach 2 problem by selling my rifle to an eastern tree squirrel hunter: To him a brick of ammo is several years' supply, not just one day of shooting ground squirrels in Montana. By then .17 M2 ammo wasn't half the price of .17 HMR's, where it started out, but close to the same price, IF you could find it. So I zzlso simplified my life by selling the M2 and buying .17 HMR's when they went on sale. They kill gophers just as well as .17 M2s...
I do have enough H4350 left to include it in handloading articles, but for regular use in all our rifles (including Eileen's .243) IMR4451 is now the standard, because it made life considerably simpler.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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John, generally IMR 4350 has been available when the Hodgdon powder has not. Is there a reason you went with 4451 over it?
Thanks
Mike
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6 |
I've slowly made the change to H4350, but will never be without good ol IMR4350. As for trying IMR4451, tempting, but every time I go to sportsman's warehouse, I look at it and see the price tag. Nope, not paying over $30.00 for a pound of powder. Sorry JB, not doing it, no matter how hot and heavy you promote it... They also don't sell 4451 here locally, but IMR4350 is plentiful and H4350 can be had at the LGS from time to time..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,139 Likes: 10 |
4451 is more temperature-resistant than IMR4350 in most applications, and is a "short-cut" powder, so dispenses more easily and accurately from mechanical powder measure--both of which were the primary reasons I switched from IMR4350 not long after H4350 appeared.
I also had some 4451 on hand soon after the Enduron powders were introduced, thanks to Hodgdon, and found essentially the same charges as H4350 produced essentially the same results.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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