Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Wilderness First Aid

I suffer from dysphlangia often also.

Never said less knowledge was more, merely stated that all one really needs is a basic knowledge of first aid plus the understanding of the whys of what they are doing and how it affects the patient. More knowledge is nice but not truly necessary. The second worse person to have on a medical scene is a doctor as very few have any idea how to work in a less than ideal setting with all the help and doodads at their disposal. Worst is a nurse.

Knowing why one does some things and how it affects the outcome coupled with a little ingenuity allows one to use available items as makeshift aids. That can be particularly helpful when in an actual wilderness setting were space and weight limitations govern what you bring. Asit can take days to get to a point to summon help let alone have it arrive knowing how to adapt and overcome is an important part of being prepared.

I am very familiar with CPR survival rates- when it happens in a hospital around 40% are rescusitated with 10% to 15% being discharged with deficits ranging from none to comas. So, at best 85% of patients having a cardiac arrest in a hospital with all the resources available still die.it isn't the movies by any stretch.

On the street the results are even worse. The number that seemed pretty constant at 8% ending up with a rhythm at the hospital with a very small percentage being discharged. And those stats seemed to be mostly urban areas as they had enough incidents to use as a study. From these many studies, current (as of my retirement last month) procedure is 45 minutes of CPR and ACLS support on the scene and then evaluate for a workable rhythm. If none, and that is more often than not, the patient is called at the scene.

I am well aware of th effectiveness of CPR, I have been doing it for 35 years total with 33 years as a career Firefighter/EMT in an urban area and another 23 years as a volunteer FF/EMT or EMS in suburban and rural areas. Manual CPR is adequate until the rescuer begins to tire, then the efficiency drops off fast. About 2 minutes of pumping on the chest is all the typical person can do before efficiency falls off. Three rotations and the rescuer should be cycled out of the rotations. Like most departments, we did not have the luxury of unlimited manpower so rescuers had to spend a lot more time on the rotation. When we were picked to test and evaluate the Lucas CPR device it was a Godsend. Circulation was greatly improved, enough that the patient's eyes would open. That was freaky the first couple of times as it had not been reported yet. I was also a part of the research on the plunger CPR device. I have had 4 different brands in my hands over the years. They may provide better circulation and oxygen transfer but it is even more tiring than standard CPR. The various trials we were part of did not seem to show much improvement in outcomes over plain old hands.

If we are thinking the same call, the longest use of CPR that resulted in a save was on a hypothermic patient. The cold can delay the effects of lack of oxygen, one reason ice packs placed on the neck, in the arm pits, and in the groin are standard procedure when doing CPR. The longest I personally know of is about 90 minutes before a viable rhythm occurred. And he walked out of the hospital with about 80% of his faculties. He has been the subject of several studies due to the rarity of the result.

Impressing on the kids how important it is to consider consequences and how to recognize problems before acting sure beats not doing so. Practicing what I preach helps to enforce those admonitions as well as lessen the likelihood of falling down a cliff. Another part of preparation is not being the only chaperone or knowledgable person, there was always at least one other with some training or knowledge to lead whether it was an injury, reading maps, setting up camp, or whatever.

Didn't mean to start a pi$$ing contest but there is a difference between what is needed and what may be desired. When in a wilderness, specific equipment will be unavailable and it then boils down to knowing what basic care is needed coupled with the ingenuity to adapt available items to the purpose as needed. After all, one won't be lugging a fully equipped ambulance along with a couple of medics over hill and dale.

sounds like you have a handle on it, but it sure sounded like you only need X training.

You've got a few more CPR and years as EMT under your belt than I do, though I did pass my initial EMT at 17 but they would not certify at that age, that was many years ago.

But I hate seeing a post here that sounds like just get a first aid course and don't worry about the wilderness.

Thanks for the extra comments, makes things more clear to me, which should make it more clear to others too.

Edit to ad, a local first aid course ain't covering very much. Even the "advanced" ones don't cover just all that much really. Could be the fault of the teacher though. Though I'd hope that all Red Cross followed the same material.

I don't pay attention when I should often. LOL . But I believe for some reason our EMS has changed from ABC to ACB.

The only course I have found worth a fugk is a modern day IFAK.

Wilderness first aid? CPR?

Take from an old time paramedic, who has done CPR on at least 400 patients, CPR is virtually worthless. Never works on a trauma patient.
We medics called CPR "The greatest hoax ever foisted off on the US public." The Red Cross has gone nuts teaching this crap across the continent, I guess the corrupt Red Cross makes a lot of money off of it.

So for wilderness training, forget CPR. As to the other training, press ahead, but I wouldn't put much faith in CPR, mostly, it is desecration of a corpse.

I just finished this class up today. Its worth it IMO.

Posting this link to SOLO if anyone is interested. They now have courses throughout the US although the main site is in Conway, NH. The picture of the guy laying in the woods with the head injury reminds me of the terrain where I found our second victim at night. He had a fake bone from a bad fracture sticking out of his leg, was scantly dressed in almost freezing temps, with a nasty fake head injury. He was also sort of wedged between stuff where he "fell" adding to the issues. Fun stuff to train for!

https://www.soloschools.com/

Agreed unless electricity is rapidly available. I still do precardial thumps but CPR is only good if you can shock. As you guys well know, CPR isn’t going to get a rhythm started although I’ve heard of PC thumps working . 😉

I don’t recall a single trauma CPR that was ever a save, there may have been but I’ve done a lot through the years and I think I’d remember that kind of save.

I know of only one save from traumatic cardiac arrest- the guy was featured on an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Robert Stack. I wish I could remember his name but he spoke in 1988 and 1989 at the Hunter Ed course I was helping teach.

He shot himself while out deer hunting and took a 30/30 bullet through the thigh. His hunting partners happened to be EMTs and began basic first aid and eventually CPR. He was on life support but refused to die when the plug was pulled. He has severe perpetual pain in his leg, slurred speech and poor long term memory but he was alive and breathing.

I recall two other trauma patients we got a pulse back but both went down stairs from the stab room. That was way back when we still used MAST trousers and the patients just had to bleed out a bit longer before dying.

As mentioned, CPR is pretty much a losing proposition. I've been involved in a lot of studies involving various equipment and the ultimate outcomes have not changed. Some few patients may be getting closer to being viable upon arriving at hospital but it is still a reach. The station I worked out of for much of my career had a response time average of a little over two minutes from time of page to arrival on the scene. Add in one minute+/- for dispatch to answer and tone out the call, another minute +/- to access, assess, and move the patient to a workable space and you are at 5 minute mark much of the time. Not much time to spare if all goes well.

It is also a racket for Red Cross. A refresher needs to be done every two years and something always changes in that time necessitating new books, materials, and continuing training. At a cost naturally.

A "basic first aid" class through community services is a 24 hour class. It mirrors the Dept of Transportation First Responder course that was offered back when I started. I don't think it is offered anymore as it required a refresher just like EMT. The first aid courses offered for babysitters seems similar to the Red Cross first aid course and is a little longer and more modern than what was taught for the Boy Scout merit badge.

as Woodmaster mentioned.....

When I was on Search and Rescue they offered a course for the weekend on Wilderness First Aid...
The instructor was one of our local Cop/EMT guys.. we only had to pay for the reading materials..

As I looked thru it tho, a lot of it looked real familiar.. after going thru the book, I told the instructor
that most of the material was straight out of 3 different Boy Scout Merit Badge books.. which cost $3.50
a piece.... he kinda laughed it off, until I showed him on the last page where they acknowledged the
Boy Scouts for their 'extensive' help in the information in the book...

The second day of the class, I brought him in copies of all three merit badge books...

during the break he was looking them over, and it was funny to hear him in the break room and every
few minutes him muttering "Son of a B..." over and over...after wards he asked me where could he
pick up copies of the merit badge books...

The Red Cross books and course were pretty much right out of the $3.50 Merit badge books..
so if you desire to have the info and it written at a 5th grade reading level that makes it easy to understand try a
BSA Wilderness First Aid and Wilderness Survival Merit Badge book...

The folks with hemoragic stroke don't fare too well either, usually.

We still drives em to da hospital!

My wife and I took to 16 hour course a couple years ago. Well worth the time and money, IMHO.

Depending upon your circumstances, you may have to spend some time without rescue. Knowledge of the local flora can be a lifesaver. Many plants have medical uses.
https://altnature.com/gallery/index.html

Even honey can be used as a temporary bandage dressing, as it is naturally antibacterial, and can prevent infection.

(As always, do your own research. Never take any medical advice online, without independent confirmation)

Took a 16 hr course just a month ago. Was pretty basic. Lots of CPR instruction. Was good for the basics ,as has been stated. I am out 2 hrs from nearest hospital in the event of an injury. I will be up grading my kit and will get an agreement from my guests they will do extra excersis to get ready.
My Ins co wanted a certified employee on the treks. I enjoyed the course and met some great people.

Guess I'm living dangerously..... A dozen bandaids, some Neosporine+pain, some vet -wrap, an Ace-bandage, Tylenol..... Back in the day, also med for bee-sting for the oldest boy, who was allergic. Used it at least twice.

I know how to use them all, plus the Heimlich and basic CPR.

Beyond that, someone is in trouble!