Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The dreaded 2 and one

I agree with that assesment. Keep everything the same and seat the bullet deeper in .010" increments. I bet you wind up .10" or more off the lands when you find the sweet spot.

Betcha moving the die either direction will effect that very little....

Looks mechanical to me.... if it’s anything at all.... could be, that’s all the better that rifle will shoot that bullet.

What is a bared hat cross?

This is not a one-time group. Rifle does this with same loads and other loads. I would not expect a solution based on one group.

Here is a 100 yard group with hornadies.




115 NBT's at 200

Indeed, especially if it's across bullets....

I bed 60+ stocks
A
Year. And load 10,000 rounds a year . When fliers appear first thing I do is bed the first 1 1/2" of the barrel, action end AND REMOVE PRESSURE POINTS . If still flying change powder , still fliers, seat deeper by.003 at a time. Never changed a barrel because of fliers, as last resort , switch to flat base bullets ,be patient, it works. Factory barrels and customs. Get after it buddy!

33% is not A flyer.

runout.

I know you have a "high end scope" but switching it to another just to rule it out is cheap and easy. Chyt happens even to "high end optics".

Fotis,
My 7 Wby did that. 2 siamesed, third one out. Drove me insane. Fortunately, they were always < 1 moa. I was so busy working toward one hole groups that I did not have sense enough to realize I could still cover all groups with a quarter. I believe it was you that pointed that out to me in 2008.

See pictures in the previous page. Gotta check runout....

Not if you overlay them and hold them up to the light.

Went back & read the whole thread. Run-out will bite you. When I switched to Redding &/or Wilson seat dies, my run-out problems became a non-issue.

I also seat all of my bullets in the Wby cases, bullet base down to base of the neck for starters. It has worked every time for me.

More drama....

Shoot three 3-shot groups at three targets using the same point of aim for each and overlay them. If the largest of the three groups is under an acceptable X moa and the rifle/optic/load/shooter is all squared away, the group size of the 9 overlayed shots should also be under X moa. Frequently though the combined group size will be larger than X moa and typically quite a bit larger which indicates some combination of the following:

1. The load isn't as good as a 3-shot group implies
2. The shooter has inconsistent form which is affecting POA/POI from group to group
3. The optic has parallax issues (related to 2.)
4. The rifle/stock has a problem (e.g. bedding)
5. The shooter is better at shooting groups than hitting what he/she is aiming at
6. Etc.

What does it look like when you rotate them both 180 degrees?




P

No idea, they're buried in a dirt bank somewhere.....

Back when I was new to reloading I had these kind of troubles. Three shots with two touching and one out. Barely over an inch, but I was trying for less than an inch with a 7mm08 in a Model seven with an eighteen and half inch barrel. I can't remember if someone asked me about it or I just did it on my own, but I got to looking at the old targets, one over another and the first shot was the flyer every time and it was always in the same place, and the next two was always in the same places. I shoot on graph paper, so it made it easy, but I just looked at all of the old first shots that I had targets for, and the first shot was going into less than one half inch. Really great for hunting, and that is what I have that rifle for. I ended up replacing that barrel with a longer one and chambering it to 7mm08 improved, but I quit chasing the under one inch, with that light barrel. miles

I have a 25-06 Sendero that does this. It drove me nuts! My rifle would put 75 grain cup and cores (VMaxs) into tiny little groups quite nicely. But... 100 grain TSXs and TTSXs just would not come under 2-2.5 inches.

One day I bought some Factory ammo on line for really cheap to get the brass and bullets (100 grain TSXs) for the hell of it I shot some and found out they grouped quite well under an inch. Since I have had experiences that taught me monos could be extremely touchy about seating depth I immediately measured the seating depth and found that it was EXACTLY what I had found was the best for those bullets in this rifle. The difference was the velocity. I dropped my velocity down to match the factory ammo and the groups fell together. This rifle is a Sendero with a 26 inch barrel, and I just haven't yet been willing to settle for >250 FPS slower than what the rifle will produce without pressure problems.

In my case, the rifle hast proven to shoot several loads very accurately and a larger number that run 2-2.5 inches. That proves that in at least this case that everything mechanical can be right. The seating depth can be right and the rifle can still be sensitive to velocity. THAT is fairly compelling evidence that node theory can explain at least this rifle. I believe it also can explain others. I also believe that it may link monos to node theory and their well demonstrated sensitivity to seating depth.

If those assumptions are correct them there is reason to believe that bullet shape and/or throat shape also will have some effect on accuracy with monos. Perhaps also, something like moly could also be mitigating. Obviously modifying the pressure curve by changing powders could also be helpful. None of which means it will be easier to find the solution for a given rifle. It just provides a different way to think about solutions which may make life easier for someone with 2 and one problems.