Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Handloading the 7x64.

G'day John and everyone.

I had a Ruger tang safety rebarreled to 7x64 (23" brl) and took it to the range yesterday. I loaded 150gn Ballistic Tips with H4350 and H4831sc. I used Hornady data from their #10 manual. I worked up to 52gn H4350 for 2760fps. Hornady list 51.5gn H4350 for 2700fps in a 22" barrel. Considering the extra half a grain of powder and an extra inch of barrel I'm right where I should be I guess.

I tried loads with 57gn H4831sc (2714fps) and 58gn H4831sc (2731fps) for a gain of only 17 fps for the extra grain of powder. I had rounds loaded with 59gn H4831sc but didn't shoot them due to the small increase in velocity from 57gn to 58gn. I thought I might have been getting close to max, but the velocity seems quite low. The 58gn and 59gn loads were compressed as the 150gn Ballistic Tip is a long bullet and I've sat them out with only a couple of millimetres left in the magazine box.

My velocities (and Hornady's too) seem low from a cartridge similar to the .280 in a 23 inch barrel. I looked online and found RWS and Norma factory loads loaded to 2850 - 2950 fps with 150gn bullets. The 7x64 has a very long throat (my gunsmith looked at my reamer and reckons it's the longest throat he's ever seen) so would this be keeping velocities down?

Can I increase loads to get around 2850 -2900 fps with 150gn bullets in a 23" barrel? Which powder would you suggest? I have H4350, H4831sc and Re19 though I think there's not a lot of room to load more H4831sc as 58gn was compressed. I haven't tried Re19 yet but will next week. These loads are slightly lower than what I get in my 22" 7x57 so I assume I am safe to add a grain or two more powder and see what happens. Any reason why the Hornady data is conservative? I thought the 7x64 may have low pressure limits set by CIP but the RWS and Norma factory loads suggest it can be souped up a bit. I don't want to turn it into a 7mm Magnum but 2850 - 2900 fps would be nice.

Thanks John and everyone else who can offer some advice. I understand you may not have much experience with this cartridge but it is similar to the .280. Please note I don't have access to the huge range of powders you guys have over there so am limited to the three powders mentioned above.

I have a Sauer 101 in 7X64, 22" barrel and I too have seen lower velocities than what the manuals publish. This rifle is the same model rifle used to test the data in the Hornady #10. I have run IMR4350, IMR4831, and Reloader 16. Reloader 16 has been the best, just 50 FPS or so slower. Using extrapolated data from the .280 I was always about 150 fps or more slower. I even went up to max loads in the .280. My throat is also a bit longer as the European rifles normally are, not sure if that is a reason for slower velocity or not. Most of the manuals for the .280 used a 24" barrel so that explains a little difference. Is the 7 X 64 just a slower cartridge?

Elvis,

7x64's do tend to have longer throats than .280's, the reason for the lower velocities. That's one of the problems with handloading for older European rounds, even when the rifle's chambered with a newer reamer.

It's also partly why loading data varies considerably for many older cartridges, even some American rounds. It's not just due to the possibility of older, possibly weaker actions.

I guess it is what it is, but thanks John for the info. I doubt 100fps would really make that much difference on a game animal.

I ran into the same problem with my M12 6.5x55. It had a longish throat and I had to load two grains more H4831sc with 140gn bullets, than Nosler max data, to achieve the same velocity. However, with my 7x64 I have pretty well matched Hornady's data. Surely a 23" 7x64 should be able to beat a 22" 7x57.

Smithrjd - Can I ask what velocities you achieved with 150gn bullets if you loaded them?

It was not Reloader 16.. It was Reloader 17. Hit 2750 with 52 g +. for 150g bullets In the 139g bullets again with Reloader 17 I was able to reach 2850+ with a max load. The loads with IMR4350 and IMR4831 were 100fps or less than the manual. They had no pressure signs, so there be some more left, but I don't like going beyond the book often. The rifle is accurate, with several loads it will do the 5 into 100 yards at an inch or less. The throat is a bit beyond the magazine length for the most part.

Thanks for that. I'll go a couple more grains of H4350 and see what happens. I'm at 2760 fps (150gn) now with 52gn so I should reach 2850 pretty easily.

It amazed me how accurate my rifle is. The loads I tried on the weekend actually beat my Mauser M12 which was my most accurate rifle till this rebarrel job. I guess a good barrel and a good gunsmith works wonders. Most loads were 3/4 inch and the H4831sc loads were the best with groups of 1/2 inch. The compressed load was the best with all three bullet holes just touching each other. With accuracy like that I should be happy and not worry about velocity.

Thanks.

No experience with the 7x64 but some sources show it has the same or a grain more capacity than the 280. I would not have a problem using 280 data or even very slightly exceeding it as the 280 has a lower SAAMI pressure maximum. I would try the European Data as they usually load up to the full cartridge potential. Your loads are at the maximum Nosler shows for the 280 51.5 for H4350 and 56 for H4831 so I would proceed with caution. I would try seating the bullets out as far as the magazine will allow and then load back up to 2,850 or so fps and see how it shoots. Comparing loads for the weatherby cartridges with free bore the loads are a couple grains higher than for non free bored cartridges. Reloader 26 has been working well in this class of cartridges 270,280& 280AI but probably not available there. AR2217 and possibly AR2225 would be worth a look too as these are in the H1000 to R25 range and might work. I would try AR2217 first.

The game will never know the difference in velocity and accuracy to me is more important than velocity although I like to have both.

Here are one of my favorite loads for my Mauser M12 in 7x64:
Hornady 154gr SST
Norma 204 53,5gr
Coal 3,33
Fed 215
4 loads
Mv 2693x4
0,6 inch group

Also loads the sierra gk 160 gr boattail, 54,5 gr Norma 204,
everything else AS above, es 2700,groups within 0,7 inches on 100 and 200 m.

Found that Norma 204 gave higher velocity and better accuracy than H4831sc.

Tejano.

I saw that I was at max with the .280 data though velocity still seems low. I have gone to 53gn H4350 which should put me up over 2800 fps. I might add a bit more powder but take it slowly and get a feel for the rifle and loads. Accuracy is excellent but I guess I'd like a bit more velocity to beat my 7x57. I have 2217 (H1000) but not sure if I will be able to get enough in the case with the long 150gn Ballistic Tip. 58gn and 59gn H4831sc was compressed. The Ruger tang safety action is a bit shorter than the MKll action I believe so I have seated the bullets out as far as I can but the still protrude down to just shy of the shoulder/side wall junction. There is still a bit of powder space with H4350.

Jeger,

We don't get the Norma powders unfortunetly but that is good velocity your getting.

An interesting point. I just dug out my old copy of Pet Loads by Ken Waters and read his report on the 7x64. He makes the statement that he was at a loss to explain the low velocities achieved with his tests in the 7x64, especially compared to the .280. His velocities are on a par with my own.

Bet Ken Waters rifle also had the long throat. The Norma, RWS, and other European data is what I would look at. Are the Swiss powders available? https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/reload_swiss/index.php They have some that are the progressive type as they are the makers of R -17, 26, 33 & 50. They sell in the UK but not here that I know of except what Alliant imports. Not sure but I think the original Brenneke bullet was a two diameter type to allow even more powder to be used I think it was the TUG or it's forerunner. This design was also used in the 264 Win. Mag to reduce pressures with the earlier loads. I would get some Norma or RWS ammo and see what velocity you get in your rifle and then use that as a comparison point. It would be tempting to revert back to when ignorance was bliss and just load until the bolt got sticky or other indicators of high pressure occurred but that is risky business.

Thanks Tejano.

No Swiss powders over here. We get the locally made ADI powders (sold in the US as Hodgdon Extreme), some Alliant every couple of years and Winchester though I haven't loaded Winchester powders for over 15 years,

I added an extra grain of AR2209 (H4350) with the 150gn Ballistic Tip and only achieved another 11 fps. 52gn H4350 = 2760fps, 53gn H4350 = 2771 fps. Previously, each extra grain of H4350 was giving a velocity increase of about 70 fps. I tend to think when an extra grain of powder only gives a small increase in velocity that maximum has been reached.

Anyhow, the rifle is very, very accurate at this velocity with very good bullet performance. I shot a pig running off a dam last week with the 150gn Ballistic Tip and the bullet entered two thirds down its left flank and exited out through the front of the neck. I know Ballistic Tips have been toughened up a bit but I was pretty impressed.

Yes it seems like you may have a slow barrel which I think they do exist. Still I would try the RWS or Norma factory loads to see what they do. In general they don't leave anything on the table velocity wise. I bet they will mirror your reloads but only testing will confirm this. I have had load rifle combos that I thought were the veritable Hammer of Thor and after downing several score of game I was miffed when I finally chronographed the loads and they were about 200 fps less than my guesstimated velocity.

I would be very happy to have even an under achiever but perfectly adequate rifle cartridge combo in a game rich environment such as yours.

I had a 280 built on a 700 action and throated long. I shoot the 162 eldx at 2920fps with imr 7977 and because it's compressed, f215 primers for another ~1.5gr worth of powder. The coal is 3.490" which puts me at 10 thou off the lands. I also shoot 160 parts, same powder, same primer at 2900fps, loaded 15 thou off the lands. I use Norma brass and the barrel is 24". I tried 4451 also with the 150 btips but don't recall the speed but it wasn't slow, just not as accurate as the 160 part/eldx loads. I'd try a 160 part, load it 1 diameter deep into the neck, or however deep your mag box has for, get a drop tube and see where the slower powder gets you.

Cheers