Experience and training are meant to make the unusual tolerable and winnable. Thus, "heroism" is reserved for a higher level of difficulty. Nothing wrong with that.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Worth considering is that this wasn't a simple flame out and depressurization. The engine grenaded and damaged the fuselage with a passenger half sucked out a window being ragdolled by 500 knot airflow. With part of the engine missing, one would expect a change in both balance and drag, no? With part of the engine missing and damage to the fuselage one would expect some concern with the structural integrity of the airframe and/or controls, no? With a passenger being ragdolled 1/2 out of the airframe one would be concerned about the rest of the passengers, no?
With no clearly quantifiable definition of what a hero is, one can argue that one way or another. But to dismiss this as a no big deal event, simple text book exercise any pilot would act the same way IMHO is downplaying a job well done by the Captain and crew in a serious event.
Sure carrier pilots have great big brass balls and without a doubt landing on a carrier is as tough as it gets. But bringing a large jet with 147 people on board that has been damaged in a calm professional manner is a commendable feat in itself.
[quote=hatari][quote=MontanaMarine]I hear she flew F-18s in the Navy. That's about as badass as it gets for Naval Aviators.
I think Jorge flew the S-3.....about like a Cessna.........only slower. Flying in circles at 25 knots looking for submarines. Some daring airmanship there.
Once the fighter/attack flyers did the heavy lifting and broke down Iraqi air defenses, the Navy did let the S-3 boys drop a bomb on a ground target, just so they could get in the fight.[/quote
I'll take a wild guess and say that night traps in an S-3 are something trained for too. So
Jorge is one of my heroes (oops), but he can sure run his mouth for a guy who left Marine Infantry for an easier life with Jorge WAS in the 'boys club', but it wasn't for him.
“Was”....
Well, this is about to get interesting....
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Right after Sully landed in the Hudson, my Son , in a blog post, made the same point Jorge made about the use of “hero” by the media.
He proposed that since “ hero” was being applied to football players catching a game winning pass in the end zone and other such accomplishments, that a new word should be used to describe guys like Sully, and it should rank much higher than “ hero”.
No reason to bring up other “comparative” acts of “heroism” other than to detract from this Captain’s acts.
Bravo.
I didn't see it as detracting from Capt. Schults' act, he was, properly IMHO, putting it into perspective. Jorge did acknowledge that she executed that maneuver superbly.
Ed
Agreed. And thanks, Jorge, for sharing that story.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Lieutenant Lyle Franklin Bull (NSN: 0-643704), United States Navy, for extraordinary heroism on 30 October 1967 as a Naval Aviator in Attack Squadron ONE HUNDRED NINETY-SIX (VA-196), embarked in U.S.S. CONSTELLATION (CVA-64). Exercising exceptional professional skill and sound judgment, Lieutenant Bull assisted in the planning and execution of an extremely dangerous, single-plane, night, radar bombing attack on the strategically located and heavily defended Hanoi railroad ferry slip in North Vietnam. Although the entire Hanoi defensive effort was concentrated upon his lone bomber, he flawlessly assisted his pilot in navigating the aircraft to the target area and commencing an attack. Seconds before bomb release, six enemy surface-to-air missiles were observed to be tracking on his plane. Undaunted by this threat to his personal safety, Lieutenant Bull assisted his pilot in taking swift and effective action to avoid the missiles and complete the attack, releasing all weapons in the target area with extreme accuracy. After release, four more missiles were fired at his aircraft in addition to the intense anti-aircraft-artillery fire. In spite of this intense enemy opposition, Lieutenant Bull completed his mission and was directly responsible for dealing a significant blow to the North Vietnamese logistics efforts. His indomitable perseverance and conspicuous gallantry were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.[8]
I don't know about the LT, but Admiral Bull was one of the best bosses I ever served under. He also had twin daughters that were absolutely drop-dead gorgeous too! In fact, they were so hot, he had to quit bringing them to ceremonies because they would disrupt the whole thing.
If it has whipped cream and chocolate drizzles on it, it’s dessert. Grow up and get a coffee damnit
I'm gonna say that "heroic" is a word best left to those present. She may well be heroic to some, but I'm guessing that all she ever strove for was the "3Cs". Competent Cool & Calm...
I've read some about SW's questionable maintenance. This engine fiasco reminds me of one that happened quite a few years back. I don't remember the airline but a long range jet from an Asian country landed in Hamburg Germany. The ground crew was doing their routine inspection getting it ready to fly again when they found a cracked fan blade...wired together. All hell broke loose and of course plane was grounded until they got a brand new engine for it. IIRC, they said they didn't trust any used engine from that airline. I'll bet the pilots didn't know about it.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I'm gonna say that "heroic" is a word best left to those present. She may well be heroic to some, but I'm guessing that all she ever strove for was the "3Cs". Competent Cool & Calm...
She told ATC "they said there was a hole and someone went out."
Safely bringing in a plane that size on one engine in emergency circumstances like those may not meet your definition of a hero, but... if you were a passenger on that flight, your tune may change.
Do you think a pilot with testicles would have somehow done a better job?
[ I'll take a wild guess and say that night traps in an S-3 are something trained for too. So?
My only night landings on a ship have been in the back of a '46 or '53. I'm glad they all went well too.
Jorge is one of my heroes (oops), but he can sure run his mouth for a guy who left Marine Infantry for an easier life with better pay, then carry on about women in the military.
Jorge WAS in the 'boys club', but it wasn't for him.
Since I'm a hero now and it's bad form to pick on the TEDs in public, I'll just add that I know there are a few of us here who have a few night traps and they will tell you what they feel like. In fact, experiments have been performed by hooking up aviators to monitor heart rate, breathing, sweating, etc, during night traps and flying in combat during Vietnam (and Vietnam was THE most dangerous AAA environment EVER) and more stress was shown when coming aboard at night that when in combat. As to the "Boys Club", having done both, I think I'm qualified to opine on both and tell you it ain't even close and leave it at that....
PS: I'll also add that in my thirty years experience and nine cruises, seven all male, was involved in the initial assessment of Title Ten restrictions on females (where every expert told us not to do so), women have completely changed the culture in the armed forces and in the Marine Corps, they still fight the integration. The problem is, if one speaks to the facts, your career's in jeopardy. Then again, I don't have a female relation in any of the services to suborn my experience based opinions. Sitting here in my office at home, I have reams of data on the subject, including research I did whilst I was a RAND Fellow. I was going write about it once, but in reality, IDGAF any more, it sure as hell isn't my navy.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I was talking to some Aerospace engineers and they said the engine DID NOT "blow up". It lost ONE fan blade. Unfortunately, that fan blade took an unusual path.
Do you think a pilot with testicles would have somehow done a better job?
No, but had it been a man, they wouldn't be making a big deal that he was a man, and therein is part of the problem..
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/19/18.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Do you think a pilot with testicles would have somehow done a better job?
No, but had it been a man, they wouldn't be making a big deal that he was a man, and therein is part of the problem..
I am fortunate enough to associate, are friends with aviators. I have spoke to three commercial pilots 1-777, 2-737. 2 male one female, and they all concur with This statement above.
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