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This part is funny too. It seems he's forgotten that the 1911 was originally designed to use a flat bottom firing pin stop.

My gunsmith just told me he thought the Speer Gold Dot was even harder than the XTP. His idea was the Gold Dot may penetrate better on pigs, the XTP penetrating and expanding on WT's.

Just another opinion, but this guy is pretty sharp; he's a retired SWAT sniper and trained armorer.

He just fitted my Glock 40 MOS with tall Supressor Trijicon sights to co-witness the Trijicon RM-06. Those sights do make finding the red dot a LOT faster.

DF

I've shot feral pigs at 3 - 5 yards with 9mm 124 Gold Dot and they ricocheted off of the skull. 45 ACP 200 gr. XTP's penetrated and made a hole the side of a golf ball in the skull.

Those experiences are why I carry a 45 with 230 grain HST or Ranger T's and just cannot bring myself to trust a 9mm.

Phil killed a big bear with his nine, but he had it loaded to penetrate, Buffalo Bore or similar, IIRC.

But, like you, I would pack my .45, leave my nines at home.

DF

This reply indicates that you did not read the link, and the link has more replies from him and that subject is covered. You ignore all negatives and act like you are the end all be all when it comes to 1911’s.

I know that Bullets change over time without the customer know, but I can assure you that the one that I have shot in 45 ACP the Gold Dots were softer and expanded+wider that the XTPs. The Hold Dots aren’t the same across calibers, I have a 158 grain gold dot fired from my 357 mag at 1400 FPS that has zero expansion and the only indication of firing is the rifling marks.

Yondering, my gunsmith doesn’t use or recommend useing flat bottom firing pin stops and I trust him explicitly, but you not so much, plus I don’t like your condescending replies.

After looking at the Buffalo Bore site I decided to tone down the .45 Supers a bit.

255 Lasercast .45 Colt bullets with 8.0 grains of Longshot:

1063 from a 5" Kimber
1036 from a 4.25" Colt Combat Commander

Buffalo Bore lists these as 1075 from a 5"...



230 Hornady FMJ-FP
Longshot powder

8;0:
980-5"
943-4.25"

8.5:
1019-5"
974-4.25"

9.0:
1086-5"
1034-4.25"

9.5:
1115 5"
1069-4.25"

Buffalo Bore lists these as 1100 fps from a 5"...


The 245 grain Keith was not tested today. It was running 1178 with 9.5 grains of Longshot. I was surprised, but should not have been, that the 230 Hornady didn't clock over 1200. Apparently the shorter bearing surface didn't compress the powder like the Keith did so there was less pressure. That bullet is also going to just get 8-8.5 of Longshot in the future.

Extreme Spread for each of the loads were under 35 fps...accuracy was very good. I shot 5 of each load standing at 20 yards. Considering the sun was at 2:00 o'clock right in my face and the target boards were in the shade I was happy with the groups...

255 SWC




230 Hornady

All in the vitals.

Your loads are now in the 45 Super territory, you will be very happy with the performance

The pics & data on penetration on both those bullets, in several weights, would tend to say that your "gunsmith" doesn't really know what he's taking about, or is badly out of date.

Ammo Tests

Couple of other notes: 16 lb recoil spring weight was original 1911 standard; 23 lb weight is standard mainspring; original 1911 configuration had a flat bottomed FPS & was eventually beveled, as I've been told, due to soldiers complaints about difficulty in racking the slide to get the gun into action as their carry mode was empty chamber, hammer down. Don't know for sure if that's fact or fiction.

MM

Seems it would have serious fangs. My Commander with hot loads in 45 ACP bites.

My 45 Super is a Government model. And, it is a joy to shoot. I run 200's @1200 fps.

What 200 gr. bullets do you like?

DF

Good info, thanks for posting. I saved that study for reference.

You're right, the XTP 185 penetrated better than the 200 XTP or the 230 XTP, and better than any Gold Dot. 180 XTP is one of my favorites anyway.

DF

But the XTP had erratic & generally poor, to no expansion, with significantly more penetration, whereas the GD had pretty reliable expansion & generally consistent penetration, but only about 2/3 of the penetration of the XTP.

Guess it just depends on your objectives are with any given ammo & its use.

I don't try to make my 45 ACP's into a 45 Super or 10mm to hunt deer or hogs with as 1911's were not designed to consistently handle rounds with the MAP of the Super or 10mm, so I'm quite satisfied with the performance of Federal HST's & Speer GD's as carry ammo in my 1911's.

If I want a hunting pistol, then a 41 or 44 mag fills the bill for me.

MM

I have been using the Oregon Trail Laser Cast RNFP 200 & 250 gr.

Have yet to dispatch an animal with either. They shoot very accurately & cycle great.

The 170 gr. Gold Dot in the .357 mag seems to be a different animal, is a hard bullet, holds together very well.

DF

Yes, there definitely are some differences in performance of the same bullet make in different calibers; I've seen that is several cases more than once.

MM

That mirrors my own experience in testing the XTP and Gold Dot bullets together in the common service pistol calibers.

Like you said, they aren't all the same bullet for every application; as you'd expect for a quality bullet they're designed for a specific performance target at a specific velocity range. The "short barrel" Gold Dots for example, in the versions I've examined, are different bullets than the standard version, and are designed for a lower velocity range. Same applies to those designed for the magnum pistol cartridges, being designed for the most common application of each.

With a +P .45 ACP, 185 Gold Dot or 185 XTP. which one would you select for hogs? I also have 200 gr. XTP's to try. That's assuming they all shot about the same sized groups.

DF

I'd probably choose the 200 grain XTP as I'd prefer penetration as the most important attribute in the case of hogs.

MM