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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,641 Likes: 1 |
Actually I think more folks should memorize the last location and the location of the shot before moving. I can't imagine not doing that. That said, trying to memorize what it will look like from 90, 150, or 180 degrees which is often the approach angle is often confounding. ("He was standing in the only grassy patch in that willow thicket" ...until you get down there and discover grassy patches among the multitude of willow thickets.  ) Looking back for a good visual on what the position the shot was taken from can be real handy too. There's nothing like walking into the grass patch, seeing it is much bigger than it looked, and finding that the grass is 2-3 feet taller than it looked and covering knee deep tussocks to make one second guess whether a moose with both shoulder broken might actually get up and wander off.  Indeed. It's amazing how the view changes from different perspectives. Likewise as the sun and shadows move. That's especially true in the woods and thickets. Also noteworthy is how many seemingly very unique trees have multiple twins running around. Always good to check your back trail as you make your way in. Could not have said it better. It's so easy to go in to lose the way back. I remember one time that I manage to ride my ATV into the area where the moose should have been, then walked around looking for it and found it. But I was lucky that a friend of mine was with me (he has a lot of experience tracking moose), who pointed to me the direction I should take to find the 4-wheeler. Nowadays I mark the trail in with surveyors tape  Just carry a compass and do a reverse bearing whenever you are going into unfamiliar country Sorry, but have to laugh at that! Great! What you have is a line parallel to another line without source or end or distance from the original line. Unless you... Flag your shooting position! Trying to guess where it is after the fact is nearly impossible in tough cover!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,641 Likes: 1 |
34 years ago I shot a buck in a lull in a white-out at about 100 yards. Sent my hunting partner to the spot while i stared at it. When he got there i had him stand there until i arrived. I turned uphill and took a couple steps before literally tripping over him because my boot laces tangled in his antlers.
He was a top 25 All-time B&C deer, and is still way up there...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Regular
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34 years ago I shot a buck in a lull in a white-out at about 100 yards. Sent my hunting partner to the spot while i stared at it. When he got there i had him stand there until i arrived. I turned uphill and took a couple steps before literally tripping over him because my boot laces tangled in his antlers.
He was a top 25 All-time B&C deer, and is still way up there...
 That's quite funny, but very possible at times. Even moose that are down in the brush are hard to see. The brush looks nice and low from where you shoot, but once you get to the spot, the low growth (birch, willow, and the rest) can be taller than expected. Something else about moose, and deer, I imagine: a moose can be very large and tall, but it can move through the brush like a shadow (nice and quiet), and it can hide like a ghost behind a clump of brush. Off the season I was riding my ATV to the campsite, and all of the sudden when I make a turn this bull moose gets startled (he was drinking water from a puddle in the middle of the trail), and moves behind a small spruce by the trail. The branches were not long enough to cover his body, so I was almost laughing as half of it was out in the open. He stood behind that tree for several minutes, and then ran. But when they can find a small clump of threes, they can easily blend with it.
Last edited by Ray; 05/10/18.
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Campfire Tracker
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That's the same thing that is a challenge here in the Rockies. I wonder how many animals through the years have been shot across a canyon, up on the next ridge, etc., and never found? I hunt mostly by myself so I "mark my place" with an easily seen survey ribbon, and look for a focal point, and I shoot an azimuth with my compass. I have never lost an animal but I have never killed one past 250yds in such conditions. I also use a heavy enough caliber to break them down or chill their doo-doo. With a partner it is helpful to have walkie talkies and have one stay at shot position. I am very skeptical of these ultra long range videos as they must have just several folks watching, etc. which I never have, ha. I have passed up many shot opportunites because the game was just too close to cover and too far to break down. Not worth it to me. I do prefer snow on the ground for blood sign, way too many tracks in most areas to just pick out one set, ha.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
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Shooting them 'often enough' and with 'enough' has never proven to be a wrong choice for us. (If you want to wander, I'm at least going to make you leak some! )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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I call it "shooting all the wiggle out of 'em", ha
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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I think 99% of us already have a rifle perfect for Alaskan use...........
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,093
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I am a believer in Klikitarik's choice. I try to adhere to that practice regardless of animal size, distance, bore size, or bullet involved. If it is not down with the first shot, there shall be follow-ups as soon as possible. I luv 1-shot kills. But, I am not waiting around to watch the effects of the bullet on an animal if I have the opportunity for additional shots. I can ponder the "he was dead on his feet" / " that second shot was not needed" as I am skinning, or reminiscing the next day. Hell, at times there has been more than a second shot "that was not needed". Nor do I believe in scrimping on bore size or bullet. Some may say that I subscribe to the "overkill" philosophy. I try to subscribe to my idea of enough, plus a bit more. The 338 Win would still be my choice of 1 cartridge to do-all in Alaska, from open tundra to alder dens. But, in close quarters environment I am still more likely to take my 375 or 416, usually of the Ruger varieties. Shooting them 'often enough' and with 'enough' has never proven to be a wrong choice for us. (If you want to wander, I'm at least going to make you leak some! )
Last edited by ldmay375; 05/16/18.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Regular
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I am a believer in Klikitarik's choice. I try to adhere to that practice regardless of animal size, distance, bore size, or bullet involved. If it is not down with the first shot, there shall be follow-ups as soon as possible. I luv 1-shot kills. But, I am not waiting around to watch the effects of the bullet on an animal if I have the opportunity for additional shots. I can ponder the "he was dead on his feet" / " that second shot was not needed" as I am skinning, or reminiscing the next day. Hell, at times there has been more than a second shot "that was not needed". Nor do I believe in scrimping on bore size or bullet. Some may say that I subscribe to the "overkill" philosophy. I try to subscribe to my idea of enough, plus a bit more. The 338 Win would still be my choice of 1 cartridge to do-all in Alaska, from open tundra to alder dens. But, in close quarters environment I am still more likely to take my 375 or 416, usually of the Ruger varieties. [quote=Klikitarik]Shooting them 'often enough' and with 'enough' has never proven to be a wrong choice for us. (If you want to wander, I'm at least going to make you leak some! ) I started moose hunting with a .338WM rifle before retiring from the military in the early '90's. I never hunted large game like moose, not ever deer before, and was impressed with this cartridge as several of the moose I killed, except for two, dropped with one shot. I lot of it may have had to do with good luck, but nevertheless less I was pleased Anyway, I was looking at the online Nosler reloading data for the .338WM, and noticed a recent load where a 265-grain Accubond (a tipped bullet) is used. The fastest load at a MAXIMUM of 75.0 grains of Norma MRP = 2745 fps, starting load of 71 grains of the same powder, and the most accurate, yields 2617 fps, and 73 grains yields 2695 fps. There are other loads listed with both RL22 and RL19 powders that exceed 2700 fps from the 24" barrel used. I would think that such a bullet loaded a tad short of 2700 fps would be quite good for anything that moves in Alaska, at least for those who prefer to load the heavy bullets of this caliber.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Ray, I would think that would certainly work. Though I have full confidence in the Barnes 225 grain TSX.
I need to load some of the 225 TTSX or at least shoot some of the factory loads, to see how they do in my rifle. If the TTSX shoot well, they would be my bullet of choice. I have many boxes of the 225 TSX to use up though first.
I do have more than one 338 rifle. Of course I have a favorite which is a Ruger Mark II, that is in a Pacific Research stock and bead blasted to take the shine off, with a Timney trigger. It shoots the non-longer available Federal Premium 225 TSX loads very well.
I do like and use 375 and 416 cartridges. But, in my opinion the 338 Win does it all very well, from up close to farther than my capabilities. Prior to moose season each year, I always have an internal debate as to which rifle to use. The 338 Win is always a top contender.
If I hunted more open areas it would likely be my constant choice. We all have a few rifles that are favorites and the above mentioned 338 is definitely a favorite of mine.
I have become very fond of the Ruger 375 and 416 with 20" barrels. I like the portability of the short barrels, 4-wheeler racks on tight timbered/alder trails, Argo, and walking through alders and willows. I know 26" barrels work for this also. But, for me the shorter barrels work better. I also admit that the larger hole in the bore has been psychologically comforting at times, and sometimes not.
With all that blabber, the 338 Win with 225 TSX or TTSX still has my vote for Alaska do-all. I would also consider the 210 grain versions if they shot best in my rifle and not fret over the 15 grains less weight. I believe any of the monolithic types in this weight range would be fine also.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Regular
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Ray, I would think that would certainly work. Though I have full confidence in the Barnes 225 grain TSX.
I need to load some of the 225 TTSX or at least shoot some of the factory loads, to see how they do in my rifle. If the TTSX shoot well, they would be my bullet of choice. I have many boxes of the 225 TSX to use up though first.
I do have more than one 338 rifle. Of course I have a favorite which is a Ruger Mark II, that is in a Pacific Research stock and bead blasted to take the shine off, with a Timney trigger. It shoots the non-longer available Federal Premium 225 TSX loads very well.
I do like and use 375 and 416 cartridges. But, in my opinion the 338 Win does it all very well, from up close to farther than my capabilities. Prior to moose season each year, I always have an internal debate as to which rifle to use. The 338 Win is always a top contender.
If I hunted more open areas it would likely be my constant choice. We all have a few rifles that are favorites and the above mentioned 338 is definitely a favorite of mine.
I have become very fond of the Ruger 375 and 416 with 20" barrels. I like the portability of the short barrels, 4-wheeler racks on tight timbered/alder trails, Argo, and walking through alders and willows. I know 26" barrels work for this also. But, for me the shorter barrels work better. I also admit that the larger hole in the bore has been psychologically comforting at times, and sometimes not.
With all that blabber, the 338 Win with 225 TSX or TTSX still has my vote for Alaska do-all. I would also consider the 210 grain versions if they shot best in my rifle and not fret over the 15 grains less weight. I believe any of the monolithic types in this weight range would be fine also.
I too have been using the 225-grain TTSX as an all around bullet. One of my favorite .338's is a Ruger Hawkeye African. This one looks exactly as the other African models, except that it does not have a muzzle brake, and the finish is similar to the dull black or gray used in some of the AR rifles. Also, the bolt is of a dull-gray finish. I haven't measured the barrel, but it is somewhere around 20" in length. I put the walnut stock away, and installed a MacMillan Classic with a factory Decelerator recoil pad, both for an LOP of 12-1/2". I asked McMillan for a heavy stock for this rifle to make it easy on my shoulder. I too like short-barreled rifles, but one of my .338's is a Ruger stainless with a 24" barrel and muzzle brake. My favorite is the African model above, although having to keep it clean during moose season to prevent rust.
Last edited by Ray; 05/18/18.
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Campfire Member
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Living in Alaska for 40 years, never having shot a bear but been close to them an 30-06 is what I'd consider minimal but not under gunned with the good bullet selection now days, Swift a frame, Barnes x, etc. Myself I'd up the anty a bit and go .300 win mag. An all weather rifle of medium weight, controlled round vs push feed is a personal choice, I have never yet talked to anyone that has had a push feed fail on them. I AM sure at some point it has happened but so has short throwing a controlled feed action. Its hard to argue the versatility of the 06, but in Alaska the .300 win comes close and shoots at Moose, Caribou, Goat and Sheep can be at distance but usually not.
Last edited by 8mmRem; 05/19/18. Reason: spelling
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Campfire Tracker
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Living in Alaska for 40 years, never having shot a bear but been close to them an 30-06 is what I'd consider minimal but not under gunned with the good bullet selection now days, Swift a frame, Barnes x, etc. Myself I'd up the anty a bit and go .300 win mag. An all weather rifle of medium weight, controlled round vs push feed is a personal choice, I have never yet talked to anyone that has had a push feed fail on them. I AM sure at some point it has happened but so has short throwing a controlled feed action. Its hard to argue the versatility of the 06, but in Alaska the .300 win comes close and shoots at Moose, Caribou, Goat and Sheep can be at distance but usually not. I don’t know if I’d call it a push feed failure, but in the excitement of shooting at an unhappy brown bear, I short-stroked my Remigton 700. Fishin brass & schittin britches....
Bob
Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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Short stroking is operator error, not bolt design failure.....
I have never short stroked simply because I do not confuse muscle memory with different action lengths in my personal equipment.
Never bought into short actions though I have owned several before the fad and modern designation was common place.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,167 Likes: 16 |
Dunno how the theory that CRF actions can't be jammed by short-stroking ever appeared, but it's BS. Have seen short controlled-feed actions jammed tight as hell by short-stroking.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Dunno how the theory that CRF actions can't be jammed by short-stroking ever appeared, but it's BS. Have seen short controlled-feed actions jammed tight as hell by short-stroking. Probably one of the better arguments for a 375 Ruger rather than the H&H. ('Skinny' cartridges are more easily bent in half to jam things up IME.) .............. or at least that is true of the 223-based cases when I've put some coal behind the 'stroke'. LOL
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Regular
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Maybe jamming a round over another by short-stocking a CRF rifle happens, I just haven't been able to accomplish such but with a push-feed .30-06 I have. Maybe placing a round in front of the bolt, and then stripping a round out of the magazine by moving the bolt forward? I imagine that one could always move the bolt slowly so that the round does not eject-which in turn the ejector would kick the round sideways- and then move the bolt forward from its rearmost position? But under stress anything could happen, I guess. I do know about a guide who had to track a client-wounded bear (about 12 years or so ago). He has a push-feet Remington .416 when the bear rushed him, and he jammed the rifle. I don't remember if he or somebody else killed the bear, but he was mauled by it. The story appeared in the Fairbanks News Miner. Just ignore my version of the story above, and read this one: http://www.wolfsongnews.org/news/Alaska_current_events_795.htm
Last edited by Ray; 05/20/18.
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I would think the short barreled 12ga Magnum pump with heavy Brenneke or Dixie Slugs/buckshot would be the best to follow up a bear with? How come they don't use them instead of a bolt action rifle? Seems one could keep it in camp until needed, I'm guessing?
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,282 Likes: 27
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,282 Likes: 27 |
I would think the short barreled 12ga Magnum pump with heavy Brenneke or Dixie Slugs/buckshot would be the best to follow up a bear with? How come they don't use them instead of a bolt action rifle? Seems one could keep it in camp until needed, I'm guessing? Calling Klikitarik and his bear vs slug story! But, in a word.....penetration.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I would think the short barreled 12ga Magnum pump with heavy Brenneke or Dixie Slugs/buckshot would be the best to follow up a bear with? How come they don't use them instead of a bolt action rifle? Seems one could keep it in camp until needed, I'm guessing? > I would take the 12 gauge slug gun too,my good friend who lived in Alaska 20 years worked on a bunch of islands for the pipeline in Alaska with plenty bears, killed plenty animals too, told me track`n any wounded animal in thick brush where shots will be close and fast always take the 12 gauge with slugs. in open country he used a 338 win.mag. for anything else .
Last edited by pete53; 05/21/18.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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