Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Introduction, the new voice of Tract optics here on the Campfire

No, they mean exactly an example of one or two.





Yes



No. They still need to be tested. Over their history they have slipped. They still fail, at some point everything will. To say they don't need to be tested is blind faith....which results in gear not performing. I don't say that as a cut on them but in support of them.



For consideration.... Which scope takes a harder beating? :

1. A rifle strapped to an ATV running over three miles of rutted out, limestone-washboard trails with the ATV pushed hard, followed by a rough 1 mile hike strapped to a pack.

2. A rough 4 mile hike with the rifle strapped to a pack.

Mile compared to mile over a limestone trail, the beating one takes on an ATV is a harder test on the scope than a mile over the same trail strapped to a pack.

Noting that the tougher test on a person is not the tougher test of the scope.

Agreed on the testing..... but it’s a fair presumption that they’ll track. I’d only “test” one if results were whonky.

Also agree on the 4-wheeler..... but the only guys I know who hunt off 4-wheelers are total wanker phagggots.... and from Utah.

Noting the rest of that sentence..... dropped, frozen, scabbard, etc.... is that a tougher test than the climb up the stairs into a box blind?

I think that you would need to be a hunter hunting in steep terrain to know the answer to that question - with steep uphill shots you are inclined to pull the rifle into you and push your head forward. I've "scoped" myself a couple of time. The old leupolds that just had a bare metal rim and no rubber on the ocular were shockers.

The last para is what I do, plus. 8 or so constant months of this and my Tract is still rock solid. As an aside, we can't get the SS scopes here (they won't export) so I have to compare my Tract with the likes of Zeiss - which it competes with no problem at every level. For more than 1/3 of the price.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/74020.jpg

Grinning...or the "climb" into a frozen, stair-less, box-less blind?

I am a real fan of the SWFA scopes. That being said, I just sent my one-and-only Leupold back to the factory for the second time. I think that when I get it back, it will go up for sale and one of these Tract creatures may be in the offing!

I understand guys are not willing to give Tract a chance and thats fine. If you don't like what they have to offer spend your money elsewhere. I'm a Toyota guy. I'm on my 5th one. My past 3 have been trucks. I've never had an issue. My Tacoma had 225k when I sold it. I changed the clutch myself at 185K because I didn't want to get stuck one day. To my surprise it wasn't even close to being worn out. Over the years I always heard bad things about Dodge. Well in 2010 I purchased a Challenger. Now I have skin in the game and can say I'm not a fan. Until you own something and try it first hand how will you know? Maybe the other guy had a [bleep] gun, bad ammo, or just plain can't shoot. At the same time I'm sure somebody with a Toyota will say they are POS. But from my experience and when I've read they are great. As for Tract I've been very happy. Guys keep harping on a test done here and you won't ever be happy with any results I post. Thats fine with me. Let it go already and lets move on. Tract has given scopes to several writers but we can't afford to give it to guys on every forum to torture test it. Imagine you owned a company and 50 guys wanted free gear to play with? Lets be reasonable. I work 60 hours a week testing guns at work. I still shoot in the weekend. I'm an avid shooter. If there was an issue Id be the first to bail on Tract. Take my word for what it is.

Oh for phugg sakes.
Reckon it's time just drop trou and get out the tape already.

lol

The drop test in question would never hold up in court. As an examiner any testing I conduct must be validated and repeatable. There are so many variables in that test. Whose to say the mount, gun, stock, or base didn't fail? Now if you pulled the scope and tested it again with one previously zeroed that would be more fitting. I'll let the haters hate.

I plead guilty. I belong to the "comfy range shooting" (I bring a camp cushion along for the hard bench and its only a 300 yard range) and "limited hunting season" camp. Of course, I am of an age where I am absolutely delighted to still be shooting at the range, have a 300 yard range available and still spend a week deer hunting each year. I am happy to still be in the market for rifles and optics.

In my discussions with the USMC scout sniper team in 1999 mentioned in an earlier post, the Marines told me that they like to engage between 500 meters and 800 meters because under 500 meters they are vulnerable to lesser rifles and over 800 meters the 7.62 "starts to run out of steam." I thought to myself "If I saw a deer at 200 yards, I might take the shot, but I would like to get a little closer." I have known where I fit in the hunting/shooting community for a long time. I am a mere civilian.

I spent some years selling manpack and handheld radios to the military and discussing them with real users. These radios are designed to military environmental specifications, undergo shake and bake testing, drop testing (in their packaging and to a specified standard height and to a specified surface), a Munson road test for vehicular application and are burned in to eliminate latent defects. Still many come back from downrange needing overhaul. The radios that were in vehicles took a real beating. The ones with holes in them or shattered from blast need replacement. My impression is that there is no civilian equivalent to military use.

I like this forum because I can learn from more experienced hunters such as a couple that are contributing to this message trail about equipment that might be useful to me as a civilian hunter. The discussion of tactical and military scopes is interesting but no more relevant to me than an equally interesting discussion of the Abrams tank vs. the Leopard tank. A JLTV will go places where my Subaru Forester won't but I don't go to those places and the Forester is giving failure free service. I have every confidence the Toric will meet my needs as it seems to be meeting needs of other hunters who hunt harder than I do and it does well under tracking tests for a hunting environment. I had a SS 10x42. I am sure it serves others well but it didn't last long enough under light duty to meet any of my needs.

These G-tests are not universally understood, and there is a lot of room for misunderstanding. Can you elaborate on what a "1000G recoil" test is?

Please provide details, or at least a technical explanation, to support the claim.

Thanks,

Jason

Curious about that myself.

Ironically, I've driven 1000's of miles with a Leupold strapped to an ATV and never had a bobble.

FWIW, all the recoil test fixtures I've seen appear to test the recoil by repeatedly banging the scope in the expected direction of recoil. Impacts from the opposite direction or from above or the sides, as could occur from real-world accidents weren't included. Airgun scopes intended for use on springers are designed to withstand the dual recoil and vibration from those guns. It'd be a pretty good trick to design a fixture to test for the random impacts a scope can experience in the field, and it still wouldn't account for differences in mounts, ring-spacing, etc.

So far, ordinary scopes have worked well for me, aside for some vagaries in adjustments, with ordinary care and caution in use. Now that ones with better adjustments are available, I'll trend towards them, and continue to use them with reasonable caution in the field. Those who require mil-spec durability are free to buy scopes that meet that requirement, and should expect to pay for it.

Didn't you also give one of the early 3-9x40 Vortex scopes a workout?

So the scopes are tested at the factory with a machine that replicates impacts equivalent to 1000G force. Our Japanese produced scopes are made by Light Optical. To my knowledge they also make the Vortex Razor, Nightforce SHV, Sig Sauer, and Huskemah. The Philippine's produced scopes factory also makes Nikon, Vortex, Bushnell and several other brands. Keep in mind this could change at any time since scopes are routinely farmed out to different manufacturers. Today we are going to order more targets from Boxtobenchprecision to test tracking results. I leave for vacation tomorrow but once I get back I hope to start working on this. I will still be available to answer questions but just not as often. A 2 and 5 year old will be keeping us busy.

You and me both, and an ATV can beat the livin' schittt outa your gear.