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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
This one double as a mace if you tie a chain to it. ![[Linked Image]](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4671/26627471408_9c794458ef_k.jpg)
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,884 Likes: 44
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,884 Likes: 44 |
Jeff Cooper once described the traditional double action auto as an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem. The problem, he said, that it was meant to address, was that of having to carry a single action auto with an empty chamber (as militaries tended to require). Cooper observed that this is not in fact a problem, if you merely carry it cocked and locked, and train to flip that safety off while presenting it from the holster. But militaries around the world tended not to permit this mode of carry, thus the "solution" of the double action auto, which permits carry in the ready mode at all times, even by military organizations.
For the civilian, who's free to carry a Browning High Power or 1911 cocked and locked, according to Cooper, one could argue that it was a solution to a non-existent problem, unless you considered the necessity of flipping off a safety before firing to be a problem.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,951 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,951 Likes: 15 |
The video that NVhunter posted by E. Langdon hit the nail on the head in regards to a couple of reasons why the traditional DA/SA semi auto has some very desirable features in the CCW/HD type roles.
The fact that the first shot has a long trigger travel as compared to other action types, as well as being able to control the external hammer by placing a thumb over it during re-holster, adds an additional measure of control during this process.
In a previous thread about carrying in the appendix IWB position, I mentioned not being a fan at all of AIWB for multiple reasons, especially with striker fired pistols like Glocks and M&Ps. That said, pistols with exposed hammers and traditional DA/SA designs that allow you to keep your finger straight outside the frame, and thumb on top of the exposed hammer while you re-holster (in my opinion) add an additional element of control during this phase.
Re-holstering under stress is one of those time periods that people don't think much about, but should.
Over the course of a career I have needed a fast and secure re-holster far more times than I have needed a "quick-draw".
While I personally prefer a Glock or 1911 for the consistent trigger pull each time, I would not feel handicapped at all if all I had to choose from were traditional DA/SA designs. A CZ 75 or variant such as the polymer Phantom, or one of the excellent HK USPs, or even certain 3rd Gen S&W autos. There really are/were a bunch of excellent traditional DA/SA exposed hammer guns that would be appropriate for carry.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,884 Likes: 44
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,884 Likes: 44 |
The video that NVhunter posted by E. Langdon hit the nail on the head in regards to a couple of reasons why the traditional DA/SA semi auto has some very desirable features in the CCW/HD type roles.
The fact that the first shot has a long trigger travel as compared to other action types, as well as being able to control the external hammer by placing a thumb over it during re-holster, adds an additional measure of control during this process.
In a previous thread about carrying in the appendix IWB position, I mentioned not being a fan at all of AIWB for multiple reasons, especially with striker fired pistols like Glocks and M&Ps. That said, pistols with exposed hammers and traditional DA/SA designs that allow you to keep your finger straight outside the frame, and thumb on top of the exposed hammer while you re-holster (in my opinion) add an additional element of control during this phase.
Re-holstering under stress is one of those time periods that people don't think much about, but should.
Over the course of a career I have needed a fast and secure re-holster far more times than I have needed a "quick-draw".
While I personally prefer a Glock or 1911 for the consistent trigger pull each time, I would not feel handicapped at all if all I had to choose from were traditional DA/SA designs. A CZ 75 or variant such as the polymer Phantom, or one of the excellent HK USPs, or even certain 3rd Gen S&W autos. There really are/were a bunch of excellent traditional DA/SA exposed hammer guns that would be appropriate for carry.
I agree with every word of what you said there.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2 |
I get along fine with conventional DA/SA autos so long as they have a decock-only lever or a safety that can be ignored.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,951 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,951 Likes: 15 |
For a single stack traditional DA/SA, this one makes for a pretty darn good carry gun. It is what I would consider S&W's equivalent of the Lightweight Commander .45 ACP. Alloy frame, 4 & 1/4" barrel, and 8 round mags. The only thing I don't care for is the light rail. They can be removed, but I have not done so yet. Plus the TSW guns had frames and slides that were made as matched sets. fitted with oversized frame rails. Mine shoots extremely well for such a short barreled, lightweight .45. [img] https://i.imgur.com/kM7kwgN.jpg?1[/img]
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,528
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,528 |
Plus the TSW guns had frames and slides that were made as matched sets. fitted with oversized frame rails.
I routinely run a search for "TSW" on Gun Broker. Most of the time it's ten or a dozen .40s, hardly any 9s or 45s are in circulation. There's actually usually more 356 TSWs than 9s or 45s but that's another story. Those guns were built extremely well and it seems like people are holding on to them. I'll come across a 5903TSW one of these days, but it may take some looking.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,342 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,342 Likes: 1 |
I am not feelin the urge to go back to the Walter p38. The old adage make your first shot count because you might not get a second one overrides all the other nonsense here. For a fun gun or a collector sure would love to have one of the old Smith and Wesson’s, for a carry gun it’s silly to handicap yourself by adding difficulty to the hitting process. Anyway many can talk themselves into anything.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
I wonder does anyone know why at IDPA and all other competition events you don’t see many double/single action pistols. People can talk themselves into anything I guess, but most have recognized the DA/SA krunchintickers are a thing of the past. ...because it is a game that has nothing whatsoever to do with reality... Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,074 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,074 Likes: 1 |
Jimmy I felt the same way about a double action revolver when I first started this game. DA is something you can learn but a SA shot is much easier to make.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461 |
I'm one of those people that just didn't like the Glocks I fired (2 models) a large part of that was being used to DA/SA pistols. I have seen people have a hard time with the first shot, but I never did.
I'm a fan of the CZ75, but when I went looking for a replacement for my Beretta 92 I ended up with the P-09 (setup in decocker mode). The CZ75 BD model was kind of scarce in these parts.
I would also like to try the PCR like Mannlicher owns one of these days.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,528
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,528 |
I am not feelin the urge to go back to the Walter p38. The old adage make your first shot count because you might not get a second one overrides all the other nonsense here. For a fun gun or a collector sure would love to have one of the old Smith and Wesson’s, for a carry gun it’s silly to handicap yourself by adding difficulty to the hitting process. Anyway many can talk themselves into anything. How do you feel about high bore axis?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
I wonder does anyone know why at IDPA and all other competition events you don’t see many double/single action pistols. People can talk themselves into anything I guess, but most have recognized the DA/SA krunchintickers are a thing of the past. ...because it is a game that has nothing whatsoever to do with reality... Bob DA-SA pistols are quite popular in USPSA Production Division, which is likely the most popular division. But that’s just a game that measures your ability to shoot accurately very quickly.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,676
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,676 |
Blue,
Would that be for the restrike capability or some other reason? Not a gamer here so pretty clueless about it all.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Re-holstering under stress is one of those time periods that people don't think much about, but should.
Over the course of a career I have needed a fast and secure re-holster far more times than I have needed a "quick-draw".
Could you describe some of those situations where you needed a fast reholster? And would any of them have applied to a civilian situation?
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2 |
Yondering- anytime you might have to go from Gun In Hand to Hands On.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
Blue,
Would that be for the restrike capability or some other reason? Not a gamer here so pretty clueless about it all.
No, it’s just that the DA-SA guns they use are generally very accurate, can have very good SA triggers with a little work, and are heavy enough to be easy to shoot.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,676
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,676 |
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 207
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 207 |
When I began my LE career, all I was allowed to carry were DA/SA pistols. I grew up shooting rifles and shotguns, but very little pistol. I learned to shoot a pistol using an issued Sig P220. Never thought to have problems with it and I never did.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Yondering- anytime you might have to go from Gun In Hand to Hands On. That might be valid for a police officer, not so much for most of us here as a civilian. Not because it wouldn't happen, but because rules of engagement are quite a bit different.
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