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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2 |
I am watching from a distance. But so far I have seen nothing in the line I would be interested in.
For my own use (and many clients I know, who have hunted with me and talked over the issue) I am waiting on a bomb-proof fixed 4X with a 4 MOA set of hash marks, 30MM tube, 40-46MM Objective lens and NOTHING else.
That one should be followed with a 2.5X and then a 6X One the 2.5 please keep the 30MM tube and at least a 36MM lens.
Just a set of hunters scopes.
The industry seems to be oblivious to this fact, but there is a large section of shooters out here that don't want any widgets and gizmos, and do not drink the cool aid.
Basically we want an up-grade on a Weaver K4, a K2.5 and and K6, but made tough enough to pound nails, and with the light transmission we can get with the 30MMM tube and large objective.
A scope is a sight. It's something to aim with. Many of the new ones seem to be designed to entertain tecno-nerds and that's absolutely ok and it's good for them. Many are very good marksmen too and are being catered to quite well by you and everyone else in the industry.
But there are many who want a simple sight that we can aim with, that's 100% dependable, and has just a simple set of marks to do ranging with.
All good and dedicated rifleman will learn their trajectory and wind drifts pretty fast, and don't need the gizmos to calculate all the things groups and target shooters like.
There are still a few million hunters out here that don't want those kind of do-dads..
Any chance your company would pay attention to us?
What does a 14.4mm exit pupil give you? How does the 30mm tube improve light transmission? Was going to ask the same question...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,924 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,924 Likes: 1 |
I took possession of my 2nd Tract scope today, this one, a rimfire. I'll mount is this week but will not get much time with it until after July 9. I'll give a report when I get some rounds downrange. I will not drop it.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
... What I have seen is a general attitude of people thinking that Brian should reserve judgment until thorough testing can be done. That would be my approach. What I have seen with a certain select crowd is that anytime someone new shows up to the campfire you are automatically guilty and you must prove yourself innocent to those select few. I call that small crowd "THE COWARD CROWD" and I say you don't have to prove Jack schit to the likes of those people. In fact they don't even warrant a reply to there ignorant interrogations! Every person with actual experience with a Tract scope have given a more than positive review. The COWARD CROWD hasn't even seen the scope in question, have zero experience, yet give negative feedback. Seems like a cowardly thing to do....No! If you want your opinion to hold any value go get some experience with the product and than come back. Until than your words hold no weight nor value and in reality are just another set of lips flapping in the wind waisting valuable oxygen! Trystan Maybe you missed this, but I am one of the earliest owners of a Tract optic. I also just sold an extra Tract scope in the classifieds. It's going to a dear friend. This is not to imply that ownership is a prerequisite to participating in this discussion. None of this is personal for me, it's passion.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2 |
I am wondering how this "thorough testing to reserve judgement' is going to evolve. How many scopes have to be tested by BrianFormJordan to make a meaningful sample to satisfy this group?
3? 6? 25? 100? 1000?
And where is this number (whatever is is) going to come from? Tract? Does BrianFormJordan have to buy them?
Or do we all have to buy them them and test them ourselves and post our reviews?
One here and one there doesn't cut it so come on all buy up a bunch and send them for testing.
How did Nightforce ever do it?
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070 |
I am wondering how this "thorough testing to reserve judgement' is going to evolve. How many scopes have to be tested by BrianFormJordan to make a meaningful sample to satisfy this group?
3? 6? 25? 100? 1000?
And where is this number (whatever is is) going to come from? Tract? Does BrianFormJordan have to buy them?
Or do we all have to buy them them and test them ourselves and post our reviews?
One here and one there doesn't cut it so come on all buy up a bunch and send them for testing.
How did Nightforce ever do it? Formi is 0-1, so at least another would be progress. I am hard on gear so weigh heavily his assessments. I have failed multiple Leupolds. I'm sure Leups (and the like) have served others well and I do not question their experience, but neither do I question mine, which leads me to conclude that I put more of a demand on a scope, and lean towards formi's (and the like) assessment than those who do not demand the same.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
I am wondering how this "thorough testing to reserve judgement' is going to evolve. How many scopes have to be tested by BrianFormJordan to make a meaningful sample to satisfy this group?
3? 6? 25? 100? 1000?
And where is this number (whatever is is) going to come from? Tract? Does BrianFormJordan have to buy them?
Or do we all have to buy them them and test them ourselves and post our reviews?
One here and one there doesn't cut it so come on all buy up a bunch and send them for testing.
How did Nightforce ever do it? When you have one test... and it fails... what else do you need to know? Form’s tests hold a lot of water, at least in my experience, because they’re thorough, and relatively objective. He has few requirements... and they all lead to hitting schitt repeatedly at various distances under stress to rifle,optic,mounts, and shooter. If wares cant hang, they’re weeded out quickly... I’ve owned and used/abuses the vast majority of scopes from the usual suspects the Tract is being compared to here.... SWFA, NF, Bushnell LRHS, Leupolds, etc.... my experience mirrors closely what guys like Form/Jordan/4th see. There’s a reason those guys are skeptical of Tract.... as am I. One review/test/failure here... one there.... doesn’t really cut it, but they can lead to a general preponderance of circumstantial evidence leaning one way or another. Whom/What you choose to believe is the real trick.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7 |
One review/test/failure here... one there.... doesn’t really cut it.........
If I was selling a quality product and one I knew to be reliable, and someone reputable from a group that includes my targeted market tested one and it failed, I'd be jumping through hoops to have another one tested. And then another. Because I'd be confident of the results and I'd want the true quality of my product to be known to all. Those test results would be the best marketing I could buy.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
One review/test/failure here... one there.... doesn’t really cut it.........
If I was selling a quality product and one I knew to be reliable, and someone reputable rom a group that includes my targeted market tested one and it failed, I'd be jumping through hoops to have another one tested. And then another. Because I'd be confident of the results and I'd want the true quality of my product to be known to all. Those test results would be the best marketing I could buy. DING, DING, DING!!!!!!!!! Exactly....
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6 |
One review/test/failure here... one there.... doesn’t really cut it.........
If I was selling a quality product and one I knew to be reliable, and someone reputable rom a group that includes my targeted market tested one and it failed, I'd be jumping through hoops to have another one tested. And then another. Because I'd be confident of the results and I'd want the true quality of my product to be known to all. Those test results would be the best marketing I could buy. Yep. If Form was willing to do it, they should send him a Toric. If it tracked, returned to 0, and held 0 perfectly it could make the company.....if not, it could break the company.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,946 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,946 Likes: 20 |
You inferring that Outdoor Life is chopped liver?
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070 |
Smokepole for the win! But if it failed, its the rings' fault. 
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
You inferring that Outdoor Life is chopped liver? ...say's American Rifleman.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2 |
IIRC, wasn't the scope Form tested somewhat of an entry level model, and had been handled by several users?
If so it is not the test I would be interested in.
+1 on him doing a Toric.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070 |
IIRC, wasn't the scope Form tested somewhat of an entry level model, and had been handled by several users?
If so it is not the test I would be interested in.
+1 on him doing a Toric. Would not a scope thats been used be the best scope to test? Isnt that the point?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
After all this bullshït, if I was Form and Tract came to me with another scope to test ................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... but I'm a spiteful bitch.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,782 Likes: 2 |
IIRC, wasn't the scope Form tested somewhat of an entry level model, and had been handled by several users?
If so it is not the test I would be interested in.
+1 on him doing a Toric. Would not a scope thats been used be the best scope to test? Isnt that the point? I guess we could expect a kicked around Bushnell Trophy to be comparable to a LRHS. That is my point.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
IIRC, wasn't the scope Form tested somewhat of an entry level model, and had been handled by several users?
If so it is not the test I would be interested in.
+1 on him doing a Toric. Would not a scope thats been used be the best scope to test? Isnt that the point? I guess we could expect a kicked around Bushnell Trophy to be comparable to a LRHS. That is my point. Nope..... but a kicked around LRHS would be very comparable to a new LRHS.... that’s kinda the point of kick-ass durable scopes. Tract stated, prior to the test, that all their scopes were subjected to all the same testing, so to their word, the Tekoa, Response, Toric, etc should all represent in the same way. I don’t think you’d get a bullschitt answer like that from Bushnell on the difference between a Scopechief and an HDMR.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
Yep. If Form was willing to do it, they should send him a Toric. If it tracked, returned to 0, and held 0 perfectly it could make the company.....if not, it could break the company.
They should send him the new 4-20x50 30mm scope and let Form put it through its paces. If he pronounced it fit I would probably buy one the next day.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7 |
You inferring that Outdoor Life is chopped liver? Who, me??
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
Since some of you don't like my reviews how about bashing my paint work. This was probably the uglyist Mcmillan Edge stock I've ever seen. I picked up an Anschutz used a few years back for dad. At the time he was 87 and holding a rifle offhand was getting tough. I got screwed and purchased a lemon off the web. Bad bedding, ruined barrel, and pretty much a half ass 22 benchers rifle. It went off to Mark Penrod for a new barrel and bedding. Now she shot great but was still ugly. My father loved the gun but I never had a chance to do the stock for him. He passed over a year ago and I wanted to finish it for him. It took a few days to fix all the pin holes and seams. I primed and blocked it 4x. I just applied the base coat and have to clear it still. Ill post pictures when its complete. I can't wait to see the finished project. My father would have loved it. If anyone has questions on refinishing wood, metal, or fiberglass I'm pretty good. My old life from 1990-1997 I was an automotive painter. https://i.imgur.com/t9BftYP.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/OX18iL7.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/nf54LTP.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/4qpAzuj.jpgGood on you! You did it up, just right for your dad...I’am sure he see’s it and loves it. 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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